Could Ontario Craft Brewers open their own store?

Discuss beer or anything else that comes to mind in here.

Moderators: GregClow, Cass

User avatar
Derek
Beer Superstar
Posts: 3192
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:11 pm
Location: Kelowna, BC
Contact:

Postby Derek » Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:48 am

It would be nice to see a return of a true "Brewer's Retail".

Large, foreign corporations simply should not own the Beer Store monopoly.

F'n politics.
User avatar
Belgian
Bar Towel Legend
Posts: 9945
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2004 6:15 pm
Location: Earth

Postby Belgian » Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:02 am

Tapsucker wrote:I have seen this shot down several times based on legal grounds. The current McTBS administration in Queens Park claims it would violate free trade by not allowing access to non-Ontario/Canadian breweries.


Riiight. because the LCBO and The Beer Store already have SUCH amazingly 'non-discriminatory policies' allowing access to international products (note how the TBS website proudly claims an open-arms policy when really they are extreme control freaks representing only a few big companies. Violation of trade agreement nobody will stand up to.)

Steve Beaumont wrote:he transfer of licenses, ie: shut down one store in order to open another.) Thus no legal structure or precedent exists that would allow the OCB to open their own store. Simply, if it was going to happen, it would require a complete rewriting of the existing regulations and the inevitable NAFTA challenge.


NAFTA is not indentured servitude, not permanent - it says in the wording of the Agreement that our country could give it a few years notice and say 'goodbye, Free Trade.' Is this not a bargaining position for some fairness and leniency, especially considering the USA bullyingly refuses Canadian products like softwood whenever it helps their own industry? At best another red herring.

Bytowner wrote: As I recall the Beer Store also made vague threats about not taking their bottles or some such thing, how they're doing Ontario such a huge favour and if we opened up a craft beer store they'd take their ball and go home.


And I call them on their sulky bluff. What are they going to do, divert attention from their massively profitable main business to fight the tiny OCB stores (while trying to sort out 'enemy' bottles that are OCB only, they can't be bothered to do all that work IME.) Wow, what gigantic sucky wussbags we have somehow allowed to control our beer in Ontario.
In Beerum Veritas
zane9
Posts: 429
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:05 pm
Location: Hamilton

Postby zane9 » Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:52 am

Most industries have an association which lobbies government and regulators on their behalf. They have staked out policy positions and pursue them.

Many of you are industry insiders: I'm just a beer lover, so my inital source of information is the OCB site. I spent some time looking at the various site pages, and the overwhelming take-away is that OCB is actively involved in the promotion and marketing of craft-brewed beer. An obviously worthwhile objective!

But no mention of its policy positions, or any indication that it has any other role to play in the sector. So do policy goals and objectives get discussed behind closed-doors?

Participants in this thread have provided many details on the regulatory/legal mine-field that exists in Ontario, in which this sector operates. I can just imagine how difficult it is to untie the complicated knots which bind the craft brewers. Perhaps a paid lobbyist would help? Or setting up a new industry association whose primary focus is other than marketing?
User avatar
Derek
Beer Superstar
Posts: 3192
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:11 pm
Location: Kelowna, BC
Contact:

Postby Derek » Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:40 pm

zane9 wrote:But no mention of its policy positions, or any indication that it has any other role to play in the sector. So do policy goals and objectives get discussed behind closed-doors?


I don't have the answer, but they've recieved millions of dollars from the government and it's tough to bite the hand that feeds you.
User avatar
Tapsucker
Seasoned Drinker
Posts: 1695
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:21 pm
Location: Toronto

Postby Tapsucker » Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:23 pm

Derek wrote:I don't have the answer, but they've recieved millions of dollars from the government and it's tough to bite the hand that feeds you.


I was not aware they have had government funding. Certainly not to the degree of millions of dollars. Interesting...
Brands are for cattle.
Fans are cash cows.
The herd will consume until consumed.
User avatar
Derek
Beer Superstar
Posts: 3192
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:11 pm
Location: Kelowna, BC
Contact:

Postby Derek » Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:39 pm

I think it was $5M over 5 years... but I don't know if there was any additional funding or future plans.
User avatar
Cass
Beer Superstar
Posts: 3301
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 7:00 pm
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Postby Cass » Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:58 pm

Derek wrote:I think it was $5M over 5 years... but I don't know if there was any additional funding or future plans.


You mean the OCB? Yes, $8 mil over 4 years:

http://www.news.ontario.ca/medt/en/2008 ... -fund.html
Peter Collins
Posts: 158
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:47 pm
Location: Cambridge, ON

Postby Peter Collins » Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:17 pm

Cass wrote:
Derek wrote:I think it was $5M over 5 years... but I don't know if there was any additional funding or future plans.


You mean the OCB? Yes, $8 mil over 4 years:

http://www.news.ontario.ca/medt/en/2008 ... -fund.html


From the link: "Funding to be used to support business development and expansion."

So... Produce all the beer you want but don't even think about opening a store in which to sell it all. You're on your own!
Bobbyok
Bar Fly
Posts: 625
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2003 7:00 pm
Location: Halifax

Postby Bobbyok » Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:33 am

Derek wrote:
zane9 wrote:But no mention of its policy positions, or any indication that it has any other role to play in the sector. So do policy goals and objectives get discussed behind closed-doors?


I don't have the answer, but they've received millions of dollars from the government and it's tough to bite the hand that feeds you.


Ding! Ding! Unless the OCB frees itself from gov't funding they'll never advocate for anything but tweaking of the current system. They can't.

I am curious though - is the Brewer's Association in the US entirely self-funded? I.e. no gov't money. Because they have some well laid out policy positions:

http://www.brewersassociation.org/pages ... statements

They can make those statements because even if they are getting money from the government, they've got sufficient membership to tell both the gov't and the big brewers (who are also members and advocates of the 3 their system that the Brewers Association wants to do away with) that they don't need their money.
winepro23
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 9:26 am
Location: Kitchener-Waterloo

Postby winepro23 » Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:09 pm

Vineland Estates does not have an offsite retail store on the Queens Quay.
In fact Vineland Estates is not allowed to own any offsite stores, pity.
User avatar
SteelbackGuy
Beer Superstar
Posts: 4613
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 12:11 pm
Location: Hamilton, ON
Contact:

Postby SteelbackGuy » Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:10 pm

winepro23 wrote:Vineland Estates does not have an offsite retail store on the Queens Quay.
In fact Vineland Estates is not allowed to own any offsite stores, pity.



Why would a small Niagara producer have a store on the Queen's Quay? Just wondering.......
If you`re reading this, there`s a 15% chance you`ve got a significant drinking problem. Get it fixed, get recovered!
icemachine
Beer Superstar
Posts: 2637
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:20 am
Location: Aurora, ON
Contact:

Postby icemachine » Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:45 am

There is as far as I know, four companies that own the off site Wine stores.

The biggest is Vincor which is owned by Constellation Brands of the US, and offers Jackson-Triggs, Inniskillin, and a host of Cellared in Canada stuff through their 164 Wine Rack stores.

Second with around 100 stores is Andrew Peller which markets through the Vineyard Estates stores and whose brands include Trius, Peller Estates, Hillebrand and a bunch of other stuff like Hochtaler and Domaine D'Or

Third is Kittling Ridge which offers their own products through their self branded stores, although according to their website they only have 7 locations http://www.kittlingridge.com/retailstores.htm

Then there is the Magnotta stores, which offer their Festa Juice and Festa Brew kits as well as their own wines - Beer is available at the Vaughan location only
"Everything ... is happening" - Bob Cole
User avatar
GregClow
Beer Superstar
Posts: 4038
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2001 7:00 pm
Location: Parkdale
Contact:

Postby GregClow » Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:52 am

winepro23 wrote:Vineland Estates does not have an offsite retail store on the Queens Quay.
In fact Vineland Estates is not allowed to own any offsite stores, pity.


I assume this is in reference to my post earlier in the thread, where it appears that I mistakenly typed "Vineland Estates" where I meant to type "Vineyards Estates" - i.e. http://www.vineyardsestatewines.com/
User avatar
SteelbackGuy
Beer Superstar
Posts: 4613
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 12:11 pm
Location: Hamilton, ON
Contact:

Postby SteelbackGuy » Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:13 am

GregClow wrote:
winepro23 wrote:Vineland Estates does not have an offsite retail store on the Queens Quay.
In fact Vineland Estates is not allowed to own any offsite stores, pity.


I assume this is in reference to my post earlier in the thread, where it appears that I mistakenly typed "Vineland Estates" where I meant to type "Vineyards Estates" - i.e. http://www.vineyardsestatewines.com/



C'mon grag!!!! No mistakes! :D
If you`re reading this, there`s a 15% chance you`ve got a significant drinking problem. Get it fixed, get recovered!
User avatar
GregClow
Beer Superstar
Posts: 4038
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2001 7:00 pm
Location: Parkdale
Contact:

Postby GregClow » Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:23 am

SteelbackGuy wrote:
GregClow wrote:
winepro23 wrote:Vineland Estates does not have an offsite retail store on the Queens Quay.
In fact Vineland Estates is not allowed to own any offsite stores, pity.


I assume this is in reference to my post earlier in the thread, where it appears that I mistakenly typed "Vineland Estates" where I meant to type "Vineyards Estates" - i.e. http://www.vineyardsestatewines.com/



C'mon grag!!!! No mistakes! :D


Thats GREN to you, mister!

Return to “Random Talk”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests