The Bar Towel

It would be nice to see a return of a true "Brewer's Retail".

Large, foreign corporations simply should not own the Beer Store monopoly.

F'n politics.

Tapsucker wrote:I have seen this shot down several times based on legal grounds. The current McTBS administration in Queens Park claims it would violate free trade by not allowing access to non-Ontario/Canadian breweries.

Riiight. because the LCBO and The Beer Store already have SUCH amazingly 'non-discriminatory policies' allowing access to international products (note how the TBS website proudly claims an open-arms policy when really they are extreme control freaks representing only a few big companies. Violation of trade agreement nobody will stand up to.)

Steve Beaumont wrote:he transfer of licenses, ie: shut down one store in order to open another.) Thus no legal structure or precedent exists that would allow the OCB to open their own store. Simply, if it was going to happen, it would require a complete rewriting of the existing regulations and the inevitable NAFTA challenge.

NAFTA is not indentured servitude, not permanent - it says in the wording of the Agreement that our country could give it a few years notice and say 'goodbye, Free Trade.' Is this not a bargaining position for some fairness and leniency, especially considering the USA bullyingly refuses Canadian products like softwood whenever it helps their own industry? At best another red herring.

Bytowner wrote: As I recall the Beer Store also made vague threats about not taking their bottles or some such thing, how they're doing Ontario such a huge favour and if we opened up a craft beer store they'd take their ball and go home.

And I call them on their sulky bluff. What are they going to do, divert attention from their massively profitable main business to fight the tiny OCB stores (while trying to sort out 'enemy' bottles that are OCB only, they can't be bothered to do all that work IME.) Wow, what gigantic sucky wussbags we have somehow allowed to control our beer in Ontario.

Most industries have an association which lobbies government and regulators on their behalf. They have staked out policy positions and pursue them.

Many of you are industry insiders: I'm just a beer lover, so my inital source of information is the OCB site. I spent some time looking at the various site pages, and the overwhelming take-away is that OCB is actively involved in the promotion and marketing of craft-brewed beer. An obviously worthwhile objective!

But no mention of its policy positions, or any indication that it has any other role to play in the sector. So do policy goals and objectives get discussed behind closed-doors?

Participants in this thread have provided many details on the regulatory/legal mine-field that exists in Ontario, in which this sector operates. I can just imagine how difficult it is to untie the complicated knots which bind the craft brewers. Perhaps a paid lobbyist would help? Or setting up a new industry association whose primary focus is other than marketing?

zane9 wrote: But no mention of its policy positions, or any indication that it has any other role to play in the sector. So do policy goals and objectives get discussed behind closed-doors?

I don't have the answer, but they've recieved millions of dollars from the government and it's tough to bite the hand that feeds you.

Derek wrote: I don't have the answer, but they've recieved millions of dollars from the government and it's tough to bite the hand that feeds you.

I was not aware they have had government funding. Certainly not to the degree of millions of dollars. Interesting...

I think it was $5M over 5 years... but I don't know if there was any additional funding or future plans.

Derek wrote:I think it was $5M over 5 years... but I don't know if there was any additional funding or future plans.

You mean the OCB? Yes, $8 mil over 4 years:

http://www.news.ontario.ca/medt/en/2008 ... -fund.html

Cass wrote:

Derek wrote:I think it was $5M over 5 years... but I don't know if there was any additional funding or future plans.

You mean the OCB? Yes, $8 mil over 4 years:

http://www.news.ontario.ca/medt/en/2008 ... -fund.html

From the link: "Funding to be used to support business development and expansion."

So... Produce all the beer you want but don't even think about opening a store in which to sell it all. You're on your own!

Derek wrote:

zane9 wrote: But no mention of its policy positions, or any indication that it has any other role to play in the sector. So do policy goals and objectives get discussed behind closed-doors?

I don't have the answer, but they've received millions of dollars from the government and it's tough to bite the hand that feeds you.

Ding! Ding! Unless the OCB frees itself from gov't funding they'll never advocate for anything but tweaking of the current system. They can't.

I am curious though - is the Brewer's Association in the US entirely self-funded? I.e. no gov't money. Because they have some well laid out policy positions:

http://www.brewersassociation.org/pages ... statements

They can make those statements because even if they are getting money from the government, they've got sufficient membership to tell both the gov't and the big brewers (who are also members and advocates of the 3 their system that the Brewers Association wants to do away with) that they don't need their money.

Vineland Estates does not have an offsite retail store on the Queens Quay.
In fact Vineland Estates is not allowed to own any offsite stores, pity.

winepro23 wrote:Vineland Estates does not have an offsite retail store on the Queens Quay.
In fact Vineland Estates is not allowed to own any offsite stores, pity.

Why would a small Niagara producer have a store on the Queen's Quay? Just wondering.......

There is as far as I know, four companies that own the off site Wine stores.

The biggest is Vincor which is owned by Constellation Brands of the US, and offers Jackson-Triggs, Inniskillin, and a host of Cellared in Canada stuff through their 164 Wine Rack stores.

Second with around 100 stores is Andrew Peller which markets through the Vineyard Estates stores and whose brands include Trius, Peller Estates, Hillebrand and a bunch of other stuff like Hochtaler and Domaine D'Or

Third is Kittling Ridge which offers their own products through their self branded stores, although according to their website they only have 7 locations http://www.kittlingridge.com/retailstores.htm

Then there is the Magnotta stores, which offer their Festa Juice and Festa Brew kits as well as their own wines - Beer is available at the Vaughan location only

winepro23 wrote:Vineland Estates does not have an offsite retail store on the Queens Quay.
In fact Vineland Estates is not allowed to own any offsite stores, pity.

I assume this is in reference to my post earlier in the thread, where it appears that I mistakenly typed "Vineland Estates" where I meant to type "Vineyards Estates" - i.e. http://www.vineyardsestatewines.com/

GregClow wrote:

winepro23 wrote:Vineland Estates does not have an offsite retail store on the Queens Quay.
In fact Vineland Estates is not allowed to own any offsite stores, pity.

I assume this is in reference to my post earlier in the thread, where it appears that I mistakenly typed "Vineland Estates" where I meant to type "Vineyards Estates" - i.e. http://www.vineyardsestatewines.com/

C'mon grag!!!! No mistakes!

SteelbackGuy wrote:

GregClow wrote:

winepro23 wrote:Vineland Estates does not have an offsite retail store on the Queens Quay.
In fact Vineland Estates is not allowed to own any offsite stores, pity.

I assume this is in reference to my post earlier in the thread, where it appears that I mistakenly typed "Vineland Estates" where I meant to type "Vineyards Estates" - i.e. http://www.vineyardsestatewines.com/

C'mon grag!!!! No mistakes!

Thats GREN to you, mister!