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2010 Canadian Brewing Awards

Discuss beer or anything else that comes to mind in here.

Moderators: Craig, Cass

Do you think it is right/good for real all natural micro beer to be incompetitions with corporate brewers or adjunct/extract beer?

Yes
29
73%
no
5
13%
neutral
6
15%
 
Total votes: 40

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saints_gambit
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Post by saints_gambit »

Speaking as the guy who tabulated the scores for this awards judging, I should probably mention that there are a couple of points worth making.

It's a blind tasting. There's no collusion and no real possibility for it. The scores came in the way they came in. To suggest that the BJCP qualified judges are wrong sort of negates the necessity of the entire process. I notice that no one is complaining about the barleywine category. The fact is that they judge according to style and according to what's in front of them for that category. To abide by their decision in one category is to abide by their decision in all categories. It can't be both ways.

As to the inclusion of the macro brewers, I like to think of it this way: Craft beer doesn't exist in a vacuum. It can't, especially considering it makes up less than 10% of the market. If it was 30% it would be no different. All of these available beers exist at the same time, and while you can certainly make the point that distribution method favours the larger players, you can't just ignore them. Yes, they have advantages, but you can't ignore them for that reason.

You could try to beat them, but it's unlikely you'll be able to do so in the categories that they win. There is a reason, whether you like it or not, that 90% of the population drinks that stuff. They like it.

To exclude them would be like holding an election which includes only the least popular mayoral candidate. Sure, Rob Ford doesn't win, but a huge percentage of voters are disenfranchised.

I know you don't like Molson products. I know you don't like people who drink Molson products. I know you would rather eat only cabbage for a week than drink a 50. But, and here's the thing: You can't change the fact that Lagers are the most popular style of beer. You can't change the fact that Molson, which has been around forever has defined the style in the minds of Canadian drinkers.

It may be distasteful to you, but if I'm honest, the awards mean nothing if they exclude macros. It'd essentially be a wankfest for 7% of the population instead of a realistic appraisal of where the industry stands.
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Post by Steve Beaumont »

Well put, Jordan.

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markaberrant
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Post by markaberrant »

Steve Beaumont wrote:Well put, Jordan.
Exactly, I don't disagree with any of this either.

As Jordan said, "adjunct lager" (or whatever you want to call it) is the most popular style of beer in the world. To ignore it would be silly. That being said, it is just 1 style, so I am still questioning why 3 CBA categories need to be devoted to this 1 style?

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Belgian
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Post by Belgian »

cratez wrote:If virtually every brewer (Molson, Sleeman, Moosehead) and beer (Laker Lager, Wellington Silver Wheat) can claim to be an "award winner," what does that title mean? How much weight does it carry?
I guess it means whatever the award defines it to be - and not just craft beer., or craft beer drinkers. And it carries the weight of the greatest number of positive opinions of ALL voters, not just the most discerning.

Large brewers don't spend most of their expenses on advertising to make you really discerning and want to try every craft beer out there. We here are the extreme minority. We vote with our palate in the best of circumstances.
In Beerum Veritas

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saints_gambit
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Post by saints_gambit »

markaberrant wrote:
Steve Beaumont wrote:Well put, Jordan.
Exactly, I don't disagree with any of this either.

As Jordan said, "adjunct lager" (or whatever you want to call it) is the most popular style of beer in the world. To ignore it would be silly. That being said, it is just 1 style, so I am still questioning why 3 CBA categories need to be devoted to this 1 style?
It's less important to question why than to look at the awards structure as a whole. Think about this: If lager is divided into several categories, why not use the fact that all BJCP subcategories are on the table to diminish the percentage of awards won by macro brewers next year.

Why not aim small? If they're going to create smaller categories for Lagers, why not submit under.... Northern English Brown Ale or.... I don't know... Eisbock. There are all sorts of styles the big guys won't brew: Why not take advantage of that?
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Ralphus
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Post by Ralphus »

Another angle on this debate of course is.. who cares?

I don't mean that in a fed up manner either. I mean it in the sense of, who legitimately cares about these awards?

The average consumer is never going to know or hear about them. The enthusiast community will - but they have already made up their minds on the micro vs. macro debate. The brewers will care about the results - but I think their intentions are mixed. Micro's have a vested interest in the results because it allows them to market their beers as award winning. Macro beers are rarely marketed this way, so what's their interest? Perhaps its simply to beat out the competition? I'm not sure.
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Lackey
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Post by Lackey »

Rob Creighton wrote: You can just see a BJCP judge sitting there questioning, "Is this corny or bland enough for the style"
I've often pictured this scenario myself. It makes me laugh - then cry.

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Belgian
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Post by Belgian »

Ralphus wrote:Macro beers are rarely marketed this way, so what's their interest? Perhaps its simply to beat out the competition? I'm not sure.
Best comment yet. Macros like Miller and Molson hardly want people to THINK about what's a good beer - but rather just to accept their beer IS what you the consumer want. It bypasses thinking (and therefore all comparison.)

Remember Pepsi Challenge, how they proved that Pepsi tastes better? It backfired when Coke took away Coke, replaced it to much outcry, then re-introduced Coke Classic. Coke soared ahead and the Pepsi Challenge failed. All comparison is rational. It's not logical or rational that people want Coke instead of Pepsi, but that's so unimportant in selling it. They just show Coke everywhere, polar bears with Coke, and if the actual product appears the impulse to buy it is automatic.
In Beerum Veritas

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markaberrant
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Post by markaberrant »

Lackey wrote:
Rob Creighton wrote: You can just see a BJCP judge sitting there questioning, "Is this corny or bland enough for the style"
I've often pictured this scenario myself. It makes me laugh - then cry.
It is definitely one of the hardest categories to judge, I'll tell you that much.

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Rob Creighton
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Post by Rob Creighton »

Ah yes, lagers – the ugly sister of the craft beer world. They have existed for a slightly shorter period in the pre-prohibition era than the post. While the evolution of industry provided some unique lagers pre, the post era provided us with homogenization, cost cutting, the introduction of adjunct use that has spiraled up to the 50% level, hyper levels of acidic carbonation, deranged chemistry that wiped out the best selling brand on earth and the worst evil of all; the marketing knob. The guy who believes he controls your mind, telling you how ice cold & refreshing this crap is or how funky you are drinking the latest embossed package or the slickest Facebook presentation.

The North American post prohibition lager era is the darkest era of brewing history. As sad a commentary on the human condition as positive and intelligent is the craft beer movement. The move to high gravity brewing began in the late 70’s. All big breweries and some small producing beers at high alcohol and then cutting with deaerated, carbonated water to whatever level is needed. Less than a dozen worts producing over 100 brands/brewery. How the hell is this nonsense something worth celebrating? How mindlessly banal are we? What kind of massive ego does it take to care that your delicate, refined tastebuds can discern the differences between beers made with the same clone worts.

Bud, Bud Light, Blue, Blue Light, Cdn, AK, 50, Ex, Lakeport, Wildcat, Carling. Laker, Coors, Coors Light, Miller, Miller Lite, Heineken, Heinekin Light, Stella, Stella Light, all the Ices, strongs, drys, blah, blah, blah… All within a couple of degrees of colour and a couple of IBU’s. Talk about a wankfest. All made with 40% plus corn or rice. All with $millions to convince you what a sucker you are…and to buy craft breweries… and to work on brand positioning…inc. working to have as many shit categories open in judgings as possible…because humans make the decisions as to categories and working the media backs it all up.

Production criteria are mentioned with many styles. How about lumping all the beers diluted with water into a category. The lights, standards, ambers, darks & premiums do come from the same wort for Chris’sake! How about an adjunct % declaration? It would be nice to know if there was any validity in the position statement that it is a “premium” lager for some reason. Yup. I’m jaded and quite content to be that way but I also used to work for them 8)

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Post by Steve Beaumont »

Ralphus wrote:The average consumer is never going to know or hear about them.
'Tain't necessarily the case, Ralphus.The GABF awards are now used widely in marketing in the U.S., but breweries large and small alike. It's probably only a matter of time until the same thing happens here.

(BTW, with over 70 breweries participating this year, the CBAs are approaching the same proportional rate of involvement as that seen in the GABF awards, which IMO is decidedly a very good thing.)

And Rob, quite valid points on all fronts, my friend. Still, I don't believe you could run a competition called the Canadian Brewing Awards without including the most popular beer styles in the land.

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Belgian
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Post by Belgian »

Rob Creighton wrote:Ah yes, lagers – the ugly sister of the craft beer world.
...it must be quickly added that Grand River Brewing's Galt Knife Lager and Hannenberg Pils stand taller than many, MANY ales produced in Ontario, and are world-class beers. Rob just won't mention all of that, out of modesty. ;)
Last edited by Belgian on Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
In Beerum Veritas

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Derek
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Post by Derek »

The foreign corporations didn't even do that well in their own categories:

"Light (Calorie-Reduced) Lager
Gold: Brewhouse Light, Great Western Brewing Co. (SK)
Silver: Great Western Light, Great Western Brewing (SK)
Bronze: Moose Light, Moosehead Breweries Ltd.

North American Style Lager
Gold: Red Baron Premium Blonde Lager, Brick Brewing Co. (ON)
Silver: Laker Lager, Brick Brewing Co. (ON)
Bronze: Molson Dry, Molson Canada

North American Style Premium Lager
Gold: Molson M, Molson Canada
Silver: Premium Lager, Muskoka Cottage Brewery (ON)
Bronze Island Lager, Vancouver Island Brewing (BC)

North American Style Blonde/Golden Ale
Gold: Molson Export, Molson Canada
Silver: Red Cap, Brick Brewing Co. (ON)
Bronze: Natural Blonde, Amsterdam Brewing Co. (ON)"

And that's all they do?

Someone ought to run a 'pepsi' challenge. It'd be interesting to see if the public taste reflects that of the BJCP results. I've never tried 'M', but the Muskoka Lager is a heck of a good lager (though maybe a little more continental than 'American' in flavour).

BTW, Coke was reformulated to eliminate foreign dependence on the coca-leaf. It didn't work... and there's only one company that can legally import coca leaves into the US. The cocaine goes to a pharmaceutical company and the extracted flavour goes to Coke:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coca-Cola

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Rob Creighton
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Post by Rob Creighton »

Given the criteria set out by for judging in this competition:

2. North American Style Premium Lager
Pale straw to gold color. White, frothy head may not be long lasting. Very clear. Flavour is Crisp and dry with some low
levels of grainy or malty sweetness. Low to medium-low malt aroma, which can be grainy, sweet or corn-like. Hop flavor
ranges from none to low levels. Hop bitterness at low to medium level. Balance may vary from slightly malty to slightly
bitter, but is relatively close to even. High levels of carbonation may provide a slight acidity or dry “sting.” No diacetyl.
No fruitiness.
Original Gravity: 1.046 – 1.056
Apparent Extract/Final Gravity: 1.008 – 1.012
Alcohol By Volume: 4.6 – 6%
Bitterness (IBU): 15 – 25
Colour SRM: 2 – 6

Why would we spend $100.00 to enter the Galt Knife into this category with such ridiculus criteria. "Hop flavour ranges from none to low levels". Seriously? For a premium beer? Perhaps someone can tell us whether Molson entered Creemore entered in this category? Bitterness 15-25? Huh? None of the entries fit into this category.

I believe it is practical to identify and categorize high gravity/high adjunct beers into a single judging because it probably recognizes the aspects of the products more realistically than the combined category descriptions for NA lagers and ales.

Just think; we could title it 'beers made at the labeler' or in honour of James Watt, 'liquid cardboard'.


:D

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Derek
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Post by Derek »

The 'premium' label really is dumb... it doesn't seem to reflect anything more than the price point.

Did anyone enter a Classic American Pilsner? (Although I guess none of them are even close to 25 IBU).

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