Craft Brewer Definition

[Rob Creighton]

Just out of curiousity, what is the problem with using isinglass for fining?

It doesn't stay that way naturally. My guess is sulphites are used as a preservative.

[Derek]

I want a legitimate line in the sand that Joe Sixpack can understand. Once he/she gets it, there is no turning back. If you batch brew, you qualify for craft. It doesn't mean your beer is any good, it just means your in the game. If you dilute, your beer can taste great but you're still part of the evil empire. Plain and simple

This is firm stance that certainly has merit.

I wonder how many breweries would be excluded by this definition?

High gravity dilution is probably more cost-effective than the tax break they get in the US... I wonder how many would simply give up the craft image?

Now what about a brewery that's doing a slightly higher gravity, all-natural fermentation (no chemical additions), then dilutes by a modest amount? Say 10 or maybe 20%? Drawing that line becomes a little more hazy, but I think most would still consider them craft? No?

[Tapsucker]

Geeez, talk about stuffy. All those people that think beer should only be barley, hops, yeast (edit: some of them don't even know about the yeast yet) and water may be defending 'quality' but imagine how limited our beer choices would be if brewers were afraid to try other things or advance the art and business of brewing.

As long as the end product is made with respect for good ingredients and is in the end a good beer, why put down a brewery for their approach or scale?

I guess we could expect the 'craft' designation to be, say, as sacred as the 'organic' designation. I'm just not sure it matters.

[Derek]

Tapsucker,

There's clearly a market for mass-produced (factory) beer, and I'm fine with that. My issue is that these 'small' breweries are growing and changing, but claiming to be the same (while cutting cost and getting a tax break at the same time).

I think we're loosing sight of what 'craft' really is, and that only makes it harder for the REAL brews to compete.

[mintjellie]

Just out of curiousity, what is the problem with using isinglass for fining?

It doesn't stay that way naturally. My guess is sulphites are used as a preservative.

Does the isinglass naturally contain sulfites, or are the sulfites added to the isinglass?

[mintjellie]

Just out of curiousity, what is the problem with using isinglass for fining?

Cause you don't want to upset the vegans.

Fuck the vegans. They can go ferment some carrot beer, or something.

[SteelbackGuy]

Just out of curiousity, what is the problem with using isinglass for fining?

Cause you don't want to upset the vegans.

Fuck the vegans. They can go ferment some carrot beer, or something.

Amen brother!!!

[Kel Varnsen]

Tapsucker,

There's clearly a market for mass-produced (factory) beer, and I'm fine with that. My issue is that these 'small' breweries are growing and changing, but claiming to be the same (while cutting cost and getting a tax break at the same time).

I think we're loosing sight of what 'craft' really is, and that only makes it harder for the REAL brews to compete.

But why does the label 'craft' even matter other then for tax breaks that I care nothing about. There is a lot of beer out there that could be labelelled craft beer that I would never buy in a million years. At the same time there is a lot of beer made by fairly big companies that is really good, and I buy on a regularl basis. Liking a primarily because it is a 'craft beer' is like only liking movies that are independent productions, both are very short sighted and in both cases the labels are pretty meaningless and no indication of quality or flavour.

[Derek]

That's the thing, I don't think the label should be meaningless. It really is just becoming a marketing gimmick.

I like your movie analogy. Ironically, the BA definition still holds onto the 'independent' label. Personally, I don't care who owns the brewery. If they're using quality ingredients and a traditional process, I say it's "Craft".

I'm not on the "Certified Organic" bandwagon, but I'd prefer not to drink chemically altered products from a factory. And I don't think this is just a foodie mindset... the general population is becoming more conscious about what they eat.

[Kel Varnsen]

That's the thing, I don't think the label should be meaningless. It really is just becoming a marketing gimmick.

I like your movie analogy. Ironically, the BA definition still holds onto the 'independent' label. Personally, I don't care who owns the brewery. If they're using quality ingredients and a traditional process, I say it's "Craft".

I'm not on the "Certified Organic" bandwagon, but I'd prefer not to drink chemically altered products from a factory. And I don't think this is just a foodie mindset... the general population is becoming more conscious about what they eat.

I guess I see it differently in that if a factory can make a good tasting product I won't choose not to enjoy it just because how it's made doesn't fit into a specific definition of what a craft product is. The same way I am not the type of person who is going to avoid a movie just because it might have a budget over 150 million dollars. Or the same way I am not going to buy a product that tastes like garbage just to support something that is "craft". A bunch of the beers I like are made in pretty big breweries, and I have been to a few tiny breweries where the product is really bad.

[markaberrant]

That's the thing, I don't think the label should be meaningless. It really is just becoming a marketing gimmick.

I like your movie analogy. Ironically, the BA definition still holds onto the 'independent' label. Personally, I don't care who owns the brewery. If they're using quality ingredients and a traditional process, I say it's "Craft".

I'm not on the "Certified Organic" bandwagon, but I'd prefer not to drink chemically altered products from a factory. And I don't think this is just a foodie mindset... the general population is becoming more conscious about what they eat.

I slightly disagree with your last statement; I think a lot of the general population is still willing to trust marketing and branding, "it says it is organic, it must be good."

In addition to not putting much stock into products labelled as "organic," I also don't give a rip about anything labelled "local" or "craft" (look no further than the "craft" beer from Minhas).

For me, I want a quality product, bottom line. However, no label or marketing can "prove" this to me in advance of my purchase. I have to put some effort and research into this, I may have to ask other people for recommendations. In other words, you can't sit back and just be spoon fed like a large majority of people have been trained to do.

As for ownership/business philosophy, it has its place, but is a secondary factor. My approach to the whole local/independent thing is this: in no way does it make me enjoy the product itself more... however, it can enhance the overall experience (ex. getting to chat with a local farmer, rancher or brewmaster has the potential to be a lot more fun than buying products from a faceless corporation).

[Tapsucker]

When I walk into a bar anywhere in the world, I usually ask for a 'local' beer since I like to try them when I'm there.

In some places like in the US, asking for a 'craft' beer works well since the culture is rapidly coming along. If I'm in a bar that does not have any, they at least know what I'm talking about.

In the UK, asking for a real ale often gets the same results.

In Toronto, outside of maybe 20 bars, I will get a blank stare, no matter what I ask for, so I just have to have the server read off the whole list.

Funny thing happened in Montreal a while ago. I was in a nice restaurant and I asked what they had on tap. When they told me Canadian, I asked them why they would advertise good local food, but not offer good local beer. First the server said it was local. Then he corrected himself and said, "well I guess it is from Canada, so maybe not"

I guess if they ever separate, Molson won't have anything to fear.

[JerCraigs]

In Toronto, outside of maybe 20 bars, I will get a blank stare, no matter what I ask for, so I just have to have the server read off the whole list.

I used to ask what they have that isn't from Molson or Labatt but tired of having them then say, well we also have Rickard's... and Keith's!

[mintjellie]

Funny thing happened in Montreal a while ago. I was in a nice restaurant and I asked what they had on tap. When they told me Canadian, I asked them why they would advertise good local food, but not offer good local beer. First the server said it was local. Then he corrected himself and said, "well I guess it is from Canada, so maybe not"

Canadian is a local beer in Montreal. Montreal is where MolsonCoors is headquartered. The brewery there has been in operation since Molsons was founded in the late 1700s. You made that poor waiter look like an idiot over a decision his employer made that he has no say in.

I have to admit, I had to go back and edit this because my original reply was a bit angrier in tone.

[Belgian]

In Toronto, outside of maybe 20 bars, I will get a blank stare, no matter what I ask for, so I just have to have the server read off the whole list.

I was at a nice little riverside pub in Newmarket one week ago:

"What's on Draught here?"

"Do you want light beer or dark beer?"

"Is there a draught beer list please?"

- Turns out they had Fullers ESB and a few half-decent things but not a single Porter or Stout or any really 'dark' beer.

Bars ALWAYS need to post what they sell on a big draught slate especially if they like being lazy in their knowledge & presentation.

Even the Rhino - why do they always ask me 'what can I get you' when I have no clue what they CAN get me - they don't have a draught slate anywhere you can even read. I always have to ask for the draught menu because I'm not really psychic.

I mean is the beer you have on tap today some kind of secret knowledge? Buy some chalk you people!