Would you rather...

[Olde School]

From an outside the GTA perspective (ie. Central or Eastern Ontario), would you rather open a brewpub or good beer bar, and which do you think would be more successful?

[SteelbackGuy]

Brewpub without a doubt.

[matt7215]

Brewpub without a doubt.

+1

[Olde School]

Just a year or two ago I would have said brewpub. It seems like we are seeing 2 to 3 new brewery launches in Ontario a year. I guess I'm wondering if a less sophisticated consumer would be more excited seeing an array of different tap handles from across the province throughout the year or fewer taps of original house brands. I know the Olde Stone and KBC do both. So as an a amendment to my original post, would a combo brewpub/beer bar be the way to go? Also have to consider the cost of launching either/or. I know, a lot of questions!

[SteelbackGuy]

And by brewpub, and I think, knowing Matt, he will agree with me, I mean a Brewpub with a SOLID choice of regular brews plus a good rotation of seasonals, and a solid menu with interesting and tasty food, all the while providing good value.

A prime example of a place that excels in all of these areas is BDT in Gatineau. Excellent food, beautiful facility, amazing beers, amazing beer selection, rotating seasonals, and guys like Dom and Larry at the helm of brewing......it is a recipe for kicking your ass every time!

[hops are your friend]

I think there are trade-offs to both and so it depends on your goals.

A brewpub gives you total control over the beers you offer - make any style you want (assuming you have the capacity). The downside is the increased cost to get started (along with the greater knowledge required to properly run the brewery side of the brewpub). Also, you would probably be limited to a smaller number of beers simply due to space/cost/time contraints.

A beer bar can provide greater flexibility in the range of beers you offer (assuming you can get access to a good core set of beers plus seasonals and one-offs). The downside, at least for eastern Ontario, is it seems difficult to get access to all the great beers we see available in the GTA.

Personally I think a good beer bar would be more successful because (I believe) most customers care more about the beers available instead of where they are made.

[Tapsucker]

(assuming you can get access to a good core set of beers plus seasonals and one-offs). The downside, at least for eastern Ontario, is it seems difficult to get access to all the great beers we see available in the GTA.

I doubt access would be much of an issue. If you have good credit, most Ontario micro breweries are eager to get their kegs in front of customers. You may need to make some extra shipping arrangements or set up a regular pick-up schedule at breweries in the GTA or Ottawa to keep stock coming in at reasonable prices.

The bigger challenge is always location. I'm not sure what your goal is. If you are thinking downtown Ottawa or maybe Kingston, you should get enough regular traffic willing to keep the beer flowing. If you are thinking suburban or small town, even (or especially) the hardcore beer lovers don't like to drink and drive, so you are more likely to end up with a restaurant that has good beer v.s. a beer destination. It all depends on how you see your key revenue source and draw.

[Belgian]

Kingston has without a doubt some extremely loyal and friendly drinkers at KBC. I can't even say the beer is always 100% proper-tasting (although the 2010 Figgie Pud'n was simply amazing spicecake-in-a-glass.)

For a very conservative "retirement & academics-based" city, Kingston supports KBC rather well and there's basically no competition, at least none with a single brain cell of imagination.

[Olde School]

I always felt Kingston was ripe for a good craft tap house. I've always enjoyed brewpubs, but sometimes the quality and imagination wanes the further you get away from a metro centre. The thrill of house beers is the marketing and recipe potential, but there is the price tag attached.
I guess it's a question of marketing other's products in a way to excite the public and achieve a level of uniqueness in the marketplace.

[BooBoo]

Without doing further research I can't say which would be more successful. I've been to great brewpubs and great beer bars, but given the choice, I would prefer to open a beer bar. It's an idea I've actually toyed with. I don't think it would fly in my community, so I'd have to go elsewhere.

[Belgian]

Without doing further research I can't say which would be more successful. I've been to great brewpubs and great beer bars, but given the choice, I would prefer to open a beer bar. It's an idea I've actually toyed with. I don't think it would fly in my community, so I'd have to go elsewhere.

After two years college in Belleville I'd have to agree - unless you can wean the students off the overpriced Coors and Keiths at Dolan's. They're gonna spend that cash somewhere!

Still - the downtown strip (Front St) is attractive and its amenable to the 'foot traffic' of Loyalist students who often lodge in/near the area or travel across it. They DO hang out here. Why wouldn't students be attracted to a great brew pub here? It would definitely have to offer "the right stuff" (think Duggans - a great well priced dry stout and Asian Lager, plus really adventuresome stuff.)

[BooBoo]

From what I see recently, those students are taking the bus up to No Frills, walking across the street to the Bell Blvd. LCBO, buying their stuff and taking it home with them. In my experience from seven years of living here, the downtown area is more geared to hardcore drinkers whose thought process might go something like this: "why would I buy two pints/bottles of something a little more expensive when I can buy three pints/bottles of Canadian/Blue for the same amount of money. Tuscon Flats, a TexMex restaurant which actually tried to serve some different stuff, lasted nine months and is now being converted into a pub which is going to have the same old, same old on the menu. Copperfield's, which occupied the space before Tuscon Flats moved in, carried Steamwhistle as their most risk oriented beer! No surprise that the promotion for a Steamwhistle sweatshirt was won by yours truly, as I was the only person drinking it. Downtown could eventually support a gourmet beer bar-as the landscape is changing-but that time is still a ways off IMO.

[NRman]

Never under estimate students. The Kick off in Waterloo is about 80% students and they support a pretty good 12 tap line up and a fridge full of good stuff.
No Guinness (MS Cobblestone instead) and typically a Hoptical Illusion or a Smashbomb - they often mix in some Grand River and some Black Oak and it keeps me (WAY past being a student) happy!

Students demand only 2 things in their beer - price and location, give them both in a craft beer and they'll drink good beer over Coors and Keiths everytime. That's what the Kick off does - at less than $5 a pint.

Most students are not set in their ways. Get 'em young and train 'em right on good beer and you've got a customer for life!!

[NRman]

and to get back on topic, put me down for for a beer bar.
Assuming we could get a real variety of beer, the idea of a 70 tap bar (with growlers and mix sixes to go - just like God intended) like the Gingerman in NYC

http://www.gingerman-ny.com

or the Hopcat in Grand Rapids MI
http://hopcatgr.com/main/BeerList.aspx

are my idea of heaven!!

[mahcinesquad]

Definitely a brewpub. I love the idea of being able to change the seasonals to be able to provide something new to the market or be on the leading edge of new trends.

I think the brewpub has wider appeal as well. Its going to attract people who are interested in eating local food.

Or maybe I'm just jaded. I haven't been to a brewpub that I've truly hated - even the less than stellar ones have been pretty good. But I have been to some really crappy (in my opinion) beer bars. I'm looking at you West 50.