Manitoba to Allow Beer/Wine Sales in Grocery Stores

[Bytowner]

https://www.readability.com/mobile/arti ... r-banner=1

Someone really should tell them that family values require oversight from giant vested interests in Belgium and the US.

[icemachine]

Aewsome, lets hope McGuinty realizes the Elsie and BS control needs to change before we are the last province stuck with this outmoded delivery system

[mintjellie]

Another one bites the dust.

[kwjd]

This is great news for Manitoba. Let's hope this passes.

[Jon Walker]

Is it great news? I wouldn't jump and applaud just yet.

The report states this;

the government is looking at kiosks in larger grocery stores that would sell alcohol products.

The strong liklihood is that these beer and wine kiosks are destined for big grocery retailers predominantly, not corner stores. What kind of beer and wine would you expect corporate entities like Loblaws or Safeway (or their equivalent) in Manitoba to offer up? There's also no Whole Foods in Manitoba so forget a forward thinking grocery retail giant thinking a fridge full of Pliny the Elder is going to sell through. It's going to (IMHO) be very generic wine and very macro centered beer. So Joe Sixpack will be happy he can one-stop-shop but the Manitoba equivalents of guys like you and I will likely see no benefit at all.

So it leads to the question...if the experiment goes well what will it lead to? A diverse selection of micro beers in these grocery stores? Private beer stores? Corner stores, like in Quebec, that can stock up on quality micros? Don't count your chickens just yet.

[Bytowner]

Who's counting chickens? Obviously caveats apply, but it's certainly a step in the right direction and, without the wine lobby that Ontario has, I can't see the government regretting this decision when their economists tell them what the tax impact is.

[Jon Walker]

Who's counting chickens? Obviously caveats apply, but it's certainly a step in the right direction and, without the wine lobby that Ontario has, I can't see the government regretting this decision when their economists tell them what the tax impact is.

But it might be a step in the right direction for the wrong segment of the market (from where we are concerned). It's likely to lead to increased sales of value brand beer and wine, not quality offerings. How does that advance the cause of good beer? Some posters here will be (are) quick to view this as a step towards better and more diverse beer being available in Manitoba and I'm simply cautioning them to not assume this will be the case.

AND...imagine if this is a success and Ontario copies this model. Will you be happy if the only change they make is to effectively put a mini Molsons/Labatts/Sleemans kiosk in big grocery stores? They may do that INSTEAD of allowing private retail that diversifies good beer offerings. Is that a win or a step in the right direction?

So in this case I'm not quick to jump to the conclusion that this is a good step or a bad one OR that it has any bearing on the situation in Ontario.

[mintjellie]

Who's counting chickens? Obviously caveats apply, but it's certainly a step in the right direction and, without the wine lobby that Ontario has, I can't see the government regretting this decision when their economists tell them what the tax impact is.

But it might be a step in the right direction for the wrong segment of the market (from where we are concerned). It's likely to lead to increased sales of value brand beer and wine, not quality offerings. How does that advance the cause of good beer? Some posters here will be (are) quick to view this as a step towards better and more diverse beer being available in Manitoba and I'm simply cautioning them to not assume this will be the case.

AND...imagine if this is a success and Ontario copies this model. Will you be happy if the only change they make is to effectively put a mini Molsons/Labatts/Sleemans kiosk in big grocery stores? They may do that INSTEAD of allowing private retail that diversifies good beer offerings. Is that a win or a step in the right direction?

So in this case I'm not quick to jump to the conclusion that this is a good step or a bad one OR that it has any bearing on the situation in Ontario.

Grocery stores will sell whatever the market will bear. In places where they is a market for craft beer, supermarkets will sell craft beer. Would I expect to see it at No Frills? Not really. At Highland Farms or Zehrs? Probably. In all parts of the province? No. In London, the GTA, and Ottawa? Yes.

[cirrosis]

grocery stores will sell the brewery that pays the highest stocking fee, leaving micros with only one of their brands on the shelf (as opposed to several under the current system).

[Jon Walker]

Grocery stores will sell whatever the market will bear.

You are forgetting, the Manitoba plan clearly states that these "kiosks" will be in larger grocery stores. Do you see much epicurean food in Loblaws and Sobeys? Does their butcher stock quail? Can you get caviar? Matsutake mushrooms? But I bet they've got bulk sized Doritos. The point being that while customers who want such niche, quality (and more expensive) products certainly shop at Loblaws and Sobeys for their more general groceries they are forced to shop elsewhere for these niche products. Why? Because the cost to stock shelves in a big grocery store with products that only cater to a minority of customers doesn't make good business sense. They will stock what sells quickly and in quantity.

Quite simply mainstream retail grocery stores are for the mainstream consumer. We're not talking Whole Foods (there aren't any in Manitoba). So as far as Manitoba goes this plan will likely make NO DIFFERENCE to the availability of micro beer and, in all likelihood, will be a step towards more availability of the mainstream beers from the big brewers.

As far as Ontario goes you needn't look further than the existing model of tied alcohol sales in grocery stores to see what the future would likely hold. Visit a Loblaws or a Sobey's with one of those on premise wine stores. Find a lot of quality offerings there? The vast majority of what those stores sell is, IMHO, absolute plonk. I see no reason to expect beer kiosks to differ at all, they will serve the dominant macro market.

Even look at Quebec. You can buy beer at grocery stores AND depanneurs...and yet you'd be hard pressed to find a good selection of quality beer in any major retailer. Even the Jovi in Montreal that many of us used to shop at diminished their craft beer selection and replaced it with more macro beer. But wait, there's depanneurs right? Go in 95% of Montreal depanneurs and you will find the same old MolBatt/InBev crap you'd find at the Beer Store. Every time I visit that city I have to go on an "Amazing Race" like hunt for tiny out of the way stores to acquire decent beer. And that's in an OPEN liquor market where ALL food/beverage retailers can stock beer.

That Manitoba plan doesn't sound like a step in the right direction to me. If you support a move like this in Ontario you are likely, IMHO, impeding your chances of a true two tiered liquor system (like here in B.C.) that will truly lead to better selection and wider availability of quality beer.

[Belgian]

Grocery stores will sell whatever the market will bear.

Even look at Quebec. You can buy beer at grocery stores AND depanneurs...and yet you'd be hard pressed to find a good selection of quality beer in any major retailer. Even the Jovi in Montreal that many of us used to shop at diminished their craft beer selection and replaced it with more macro beer. But wait, there's depanneurs right? Go in 95% of Montreal depanneurs and you will find the same old MolBatt/InBev crap you'd find at the Beer Store. Every time I visit that city I have to go on an "Amazing Race" like hunt for tiny out of the way stores to acquire decent beer. And that's in an OPEN liquor market where ALL food/beverage retailers can stock beer.

I like a lot of Jon's points, but disagree on Montreal. There is pretty good beer selection in SOME big grocery stores like Provigo on Mont Royal, which alone puts our so-called "Beer Store" to shame. DDC and LTM are abundant and cheap there. Besides this one - any other big stores you guys like?

With the Depanneurs, I have no trouble finding (and remembering) about a half-dozen good ones that together seem to offer more than I can buy. Are most of the other Deps shitty, yes and I don't re-visit them. I can still find way more stuff than I need to bring back with me, between some smaller stores and some bigger ones like Peluso.

The point is maybe this: prevalent mediocrity in Montreal still allows the 'beer hunter' stores to flourish, and there seem to be as many cropping up as the market demands.

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[Saison]

There is a lot of holes in those Quebec assumptions. Even the first paragraph requires leaps of faith to get to failure.

[rejtable]

The QC model is a brilliant model for fans of QC micros. Their access to good beer from the rest of the world is not that special. Some SAQs do a pretty good job with Belgian beer, but they overall have pretty bad access to US beer for example.

I think I'd still rather have the QC model than the ON model, but there are good and bad in both.

As for MB, if this is a first step towards something like QC has eventually, I think that's worth applauding. If it's the only step they ever take and it ends up just being the equivalent to the ON wine kiosk thing, then it's still a step forward for consumers. Just not a step most of the folks who post here would like to see. Better access to yellow fizzy macro beer is still a good thing for the vast majority of the populace.

[icemachine]

The QC model is a brilliant model for fans of QC micros. Their access to good beer from the rest of the world is not that special. Some SAQs do a pretty good job with Belgian beer, but they overall have pretty bad access to US beer for example.

I think I'd still rather have the QC model than the ON model, but there are good and bad in both.

As for MB, if this is a first step towards something like QC has eventually, I think that's worth applauding. If it's the only step they ever take and it ends up just being the equivalent to the ON wine kiosk thing, then it's still a step forward for consumers. Just not a step most of the folks who post here would like to see. Better access to yellow fizzy macro beer is still a good thing for the vast majority of the populace.

Not only that, but once the province sees their is no large increase in public drunken activity, specialty stores and corner shops will have a better chance at getting licensed than under a sudden regime change.

[Bytowner]

Not only that, but once the province sees their is no large increase in public drunken activity, specialty stores and corner shops will have a better chance at getting licensed than under a sudden regime change.

You believe the government (Manitoban or Ontarian) is smoking its own shit with regards to social responsibility?