current APA,IPA of choice

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cannondale
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Postby cannondale » Sat Sep 24, 2011 4:21 pm

Belgian wrote:
cannondale wrote:And for those who don't find beer semantics silly, Tankhouse is classified as an APA on both RB and BA, it meets the BJCP style guidelines for an APA and there is no recognized beer category called 'Ontario pale ale'.


What, so we can't talk about a specific regional style of Pale Ale in Ontario? Who needs the officialdom? (I know you're just pointing out what's official & I guess within that our tiny beer scene doesn't even blip on the radar. ;) )

Because I think there's been a clear dividing line laid down in this province between the old and the new - namely, the Tankhouse kind of beers that for years seemed like the cautious avoidance of USA West Coast style and - more recently - the sudden embracing of USA West Coast by our brewers and (thankfully) even the LCBO.

I mean the game is on - there's a place for Tankhouse, and a very different place for Mad Tom and Smashbomb. There's been a change here. We have finally crossed over.

Feel free to disagree (I won't try to win anyone's vote) but it seems amazingly obvious.


J-Roc, I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying here. In fact, what should be amazingly obvious is that I don't give a rats pancreas about the degree of granularity you fellas employ when recognizing beer styles (Translation: Feel free to toss 'em all in the discussion). I'm only here because the OP asked 'now that we actually have a selection of year round apa/ipa's to choose from, what are you grabbing the most and why?'. The G-Unit named a beer that is (a) available year round, and (b) widely considered to be an APA. Therefore, his vote should count!

Perhaps the OP should have added the caviat 'Beers that are, in my opinion, olde school Ontario pale ales that have been masquerading as IPA's and APA's for years unchecked need not apply.'? :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:

Edit: Training wheels added.
Last edited by cannondale on Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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matt7215
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Postby matt7215 » Sat Sep 24, 2011 5:46 pm

cannondale wrote:
Belgian wrote:
cannondale wrote:And for those who don't find beer semantics silly, Tankhouse is classified as an APA on both RB and BA, it meets the BJCP style guidelines for an APA and there is no recognized beer category called 'Ontario pale ale'.


What, so we can't talk about a specific regional style of Pale Ale in Ontario? Who needs the officialdom? (I know you're just pointing out what's official & I guess within that our tiny beer scene doesn't even blip on the radar. ;) )

Because I think there's been a clear dividing line laid down in this province between the old and the new - namely, the Tankhouse kind of beers that for years seemed like the cautious avoidance of USA West Coast style and - more recently - the sudden embracing of USA West Coast by our brewers and (thankfully) even the LCBO.

I mean the game is on - there's a place for Tankhouse, and a very different place for Mad Tom and Smashbomb. There's been a change here. We have finally crossed over.

Feel free to disagree (I won't try to win anyone's vote) but it seems amazingly obvious.


J-Roc, I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying here. In fact, what should be amazingly obvious is that I don't give a rats pancreas about the degree of granularity you fellas employ when recognizing beer styles. I'm only here because the OP asked 'now that we actually have a selection of year round apa/ipa's to choose from, what are you grabbing the most and why?'. The G-Unit named a beer that is (a) available year round, and (b) widely considered to be an APA. Therefore, his vote should count!

Perhaps the OP should have added the caviat 'Beers that are, in my opinion, olde school Ontario pale ales that have been masquerading as IPA's and APA's for years unchecked need not apply.'?


:lol: :lol:
G.M. Gillman
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Postby G.M. Gillman » Sat Sep 24, 2011 5:58 pm

I look at these things in historical terms, regardless of current classifications which are often used for judging purposes or to sub-divide (better identify) variants.

Greene King IPA, Wells IPA and Bass Pale Ale are amber-coloured, as Ballantine India Pale Ale (made in the U.S.) had been, so why wouldn't an amber ale such as Tankhouse be a pale ale given it is amber and well-hopped too?

It uses (I understand) American varieties of hops, from the West Coast, I find it very West Coast in style. Pale malts always historically again encompassed malts from light colour to a decided amber in colour. People are free to classify as they wish but speaking for myself I see the Tankhouse type of beer as of a piece with American Pale Ale.

Gary
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Postby matt7215 » Sat Sep 24, 2011 6:04 pm

for the record i very much value gary and his contributions to this site and his vote certainly does count

regarding tankhouse, i can think of no other beer that sums up the ontario brewing scene better then Mill St Tankhouse Ale. if anyone questions how import tankhouse is to craft ale in this province go back to page one of the what are you drinking thread. with that being said tankhouse ale isnt now and never has been a APA IMO. no other APA that i know of has notes of chocolate
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Postby G.M. Gillman » Sat Sep 24, 2011 6:14 pm

Well thanks for those comments, I value others' comments in turn albeit not always in agreement. Flying Monkey's Hoptical Illusion Almost Pale Ale is another beer I respect a lot, another APA/IPA-style beer IMO. The brewer states "almost pale ale" on the label so maybe it thinks it isn't quite a pale ale; fair enough, but to me it is. Isn't Sierra Nevada amber and called a pale ale on the label...?

Gary
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Postby G.M. Gillman » Sat Sep 24, 2011 6:20 pm

I'm not trying to duck the question, if we restrict to lighter-coloured pales I'd say Liberty Ale, possibly the original of the APA style, is my favourite, or Southern Tier IPA which has some colour but isn't dark amber.

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Postby Belgian » Sat Sep 24, 2011 7:46 pm

cannondale wrote:Perhaps the OP should have added the caviat 'Beers that are, in my opinion, olde school Ontario pale ales that have been masquerading as IPA's and APA's for years unchecked need not apply.'?


Why? I'm just saying the RB or whatever DGAF classification doesn't stop any of us who'd like to call some of them "Ontario Pale Ales." It's just a name not a 911 call. Toss 'em all in the discussion I say, they're part of what our landscape has to offer.
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Postby phat matt » Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:39 pm

To me tankhouse is an amber ale, because of the high use of crystal malts that resilts in a slight roasted character. Similar to roasted barley, but nowhere near as intense. I find ithaca brewery cascazilla to be very similar to tankhouse and it is a respected american amber ale. Sierra nevada doesnt apply to this, because they use very little crystal malt which gives it a slight caramel taste.
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Postby G.M. Gillman » Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:32 am

It's true crystal malt is used in the recipe of Tankhouse Ale, but mixing pale malt and crystal malt is common for pale ale in the 20th century and now. How much is added and how the taste is affected will vary for each pale ale and brewer.

I have no difficulty saying amber ale is a sub-set of pale ale, it seems to have been split off from the genus at some point in the 1800's for Ireland with its red ale and perhaps North America. But it's a question of degree what you call it IMO. It gets complicated because pale ale originally meant a stocked beer, aged on its yeast in cask and bottle. What we call pale ale and amber ale today were "mild ales" in the old days because not long aged and even by hop rate, probably are closer to the latter than 1800's pale ales and their 3-6 lb per barrel hop rates.

The description on the Mill St website is interesting and it happens to call the beer a pale ale:

http://www.millstreetbrewpub.ca/content/our-beers

As I said earlier, I reserve the right to differ with brewers what they call their beers stylistically, but not in this case evidently.
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Postby cannondale » Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:05 am

Belgian wrote:
cannondale wrote:Perhaps the OP should have added the caviat 'Beers that are, in my opinion, olde school Ontario pale ales that have been masquerading as IPA's and APA's for years unchecked need not apply.'? :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:


Why? I'm just saying the RB or whatever DGAF classification doesn't stop any of us who'd like to call some of them "Ontario Pale Ales." It's just a name not a 911 call. Toss 'em all in the discussion I say, they're part of what our landscape has to offer.


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Postby cratez » Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:08 pm

I understand where both sides are coming from here. Stylistically Tankhouse is a US Pale Ale (substantial citric North American hopping, medium strength, biscuity malts, spicy bitterness) with Amber Ale qualities (toast, caramel, earth, roast, copper appearance). It mostly conforms to the BJCP guidelines for APA, the brewer calls it a pale ale, and it's recognized by BA and RB as an APA, but I can see how its blending of styles would cause some people to label it an Ontario Pale Ale or US Amber Ale. And I agree that Duggan's #9, Hoptical Illusion, and Great Lakes 666 are brewed in a similar vein. Since everyone other than a few people in this thread concur that Tankhouse is in fact an APA, I think Gary is completely entitled to list it as one of his favourites, and I'm not surprised that he prefers a milder US pale given his fondness of English ales.
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Postby JeffPorter » Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:50 pm

matt7215 wrote:
cannondale wrote:
midlife crisis wrote:My personal favourite at the moment is Grand River Pugnacious. It has those quirky tropical flavours going on. Very drinkable.


pugnacious is a cambridge pale ale


thats galt pale ale to you


Agreed. It's Galt Knife Old Style, not Hespler or Preston.
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Postby Sil » Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:47 am

Ont APA/IPA: Crazy Canuck, Smashbomb, Mad Tom - in that order. I lean more towards the Canuck because I'm lazy and Great Lakes is closer than the LCBO to my place.

US IPA: Ithaca Flower Power*, Sixpoint Bengali Tiger
US APA: Dale's Pale Ale

*pretty much my favorite "I can usually get it" IPA right now. Except last time I was in Buffalo I couldn't. Boo.

Had an amazing IPA last week in California that ranks in my top 5 ever - Alpine 'Duet'. If you get a chance to try this fresh, do it. Wow! Out of a week of drinking West Coast IPAs, including all the usual suspects, this was definitely my favorite.

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