fall release?

Rubaiyat · Post by **Rubaiyat** » Tue Sep 30, 2003 3:27 pm

BORDERLINE --- Although we are not perfect, we are pretty attentive to our e-mails.

Please identify yourself or send another e-mail right now to paul@greatdrinks.com so I can investigate why you may (or may not) have received a reply .. !?

Thanks, Paul

Rubaiyat · Post by **Rubaiyat** » Tue Sep 30, 2003 3:29 pm

For the record, as the second most important purveyor of Belgian beers in this market we, too, were dismayed when no Belgians were selected for the Autumn release.

God bless,

Paul

Rubaiyat · Post by **Rubaiyat** » Tue Sep 30, 2003 3:46 pm

... from us in the Winter Welcome release are the following:

L & L Cognac - X.O. Beer $3.95

Brasserie a Vapeur - Cochonnette $2.95

Van Steenberge - Leute Bokbier $2.25

Schmaltz Brewing - Genesis Ale $2.50

Cheers, Paul

Rubaiyat · Post by **Rubaiyat** » Tue Sep 30, 2003 3:48 pm

... and in the January Porters and Stouts release:

Burton Bridge Brewery - Burton Porter $3.95

Cheers, Paul

borderline_alcoholic · Tue Sep 30, 2003 4:24 pm

So essentially, the abundance of all the (IMHO completely worthless) Wychwood beer on the general list (plus the prevalence of UK beer in the seasonal promos) has over-saturated the UK-beer market in Toronto to the extent that it is just not feasible to sustainably consignment import much of anything exceptional from Blighty.

So what do consumers do? Encourage the LCBO to bring in a better quality range of UK beers? They are not exactly an organisation known for their interest or swift response to the wishes of their customers, especially a small subset of beer drinkers. And I suspect that they have their own reasons for their loyalty to the Wychwood brewery anyway. Boycott the current range of UK beers until we get something better or a market with enough demand to justify bringing in private imports? This would presumably result in UK beers no longer being listed at all, which is hardly desirable and is not exactly in importers' interests either.

Hmm, a situation with no obvious positive courses of action... It is at times like this that I sort of want to cry.

Peter - just out of interest how many cases of something would you need to be able to sell to make it worthwhile to bring a product in on consignment?

And on a lighter note, good news on the Adnams SSB coming in attractive bottles. The canned Adnams beer always picked up a slight metallic taste, which was less than ideal. I used to buy the cans while on trains, so my options were limited at the time. Anyway, I look forward to picking up a few cases of the bottled SSB when it arrives.

Josh Oakes · Post by **Josh Oakes** » Tue Sep 30, 2003 4:28 pm

Rubaiyat,

Are you bringing in Saison de Pipaix either as a consignment item or for Smokeless?

Rubaiyat · Post by **Rubaiyat** » Tue Sep 30, 2003 4:48 pm

Yes - TBD ... but yes. Will keep you posted.

Paul

Rubaiyat · Post by **Rubaiyat** » Tue Sep 30, 2003 4:56 pm

re: english (and applies, generally, to everything) beers ... no it's not that -- it's just that in view of the fact the LCBO (stores) is the only RETAIL avenue for us merchants (for anyone) for imported alcohol beverages in Ontario - unless a product is ordered by the LCBO, it is extremely inefficient, cumbersome, tedious, and, generally, not viable, to order a lot of stuff via the consignment program. and that which IS ordered, goes to committed, seasoned licensees and the occasional consumer who doesn't mind jumping through hoops -- and -- buying by the case.

understandably, though, they (i.e. for the stores) can't order EVERYTHING under the sun ...

what's wrong with this picture ?

so call your mpp's -- rally the troops ... make your voices heard .. ! but it's not the LCBO, it's the government.

my two cents.

borderline_alcoholic · Tue Sep 30, 2003 8:44 pm

Oh yes, I understand the chief underlying problem fairly well; that we have a system in place totally controlled by the provincial government which only allows two retail beer outlets, one a quango and the other a monopoly. A system far from ideal. While this remains the case, we can all expect to jump through hoops and be generally restricted.

However, as miserable as this situation is, I do not see it changing in a hurry. There are not enough people who care about decent beer AFAICS. There might be some support for deregulating and allowing alcohol to be sold from convenience and specialist stores - it certainly makes sense to me - and this would have the knock on effect of giving importers more outlets, so hopefully one day...

But the point being made above is that even for those consumers willing to go to the extra lengths of contacting importers directly (and thanks Paul, I got your e-mail today), there are still serious limitations because importers just cannot offer too wide a selection on consignment because of needing to make a return from a niche market coupled with further regulations regarding testing etc. So, if we assume that the current LCBO system will be around for the next few years, how many sales of cases of beer does make it worthwhile for an importer to bring it in on consignment? 10? 50? 100?

And the reason I am currently rambling away primarily about UK beers is because I think that the selection of Belgian beers available through a combination of the LCBO and consignment ordering (not ideal, but at least it's there) is actually pretty reasonable, whereas for me, no matter which people I contact, the English selection in Ontario is very limited and still very much dependent on getting lucky with a seasonal promotion.

Peter's reply made it sound like the market for English product is saturated at least as far as the personal imports niche is concerned. Therefore, it does make some sense that I would be far better off if the LCBO would maintain the quantity of English beers, but just choose different ones - but I do not see any way of getting that message to them given that a) they do not seem to listen to customers' opinions, b) a decline in sales would likely be looked upon as a loss of interest in English style beers and c) an increase in sales would likely be seen as support for more products from the same breweries...

And thus I am stuck... You are right that the government is where any real solution to the overall problem lies, but in the meantime as a consumer I have to continue to play the hand that is dealt me as best as I can, if you see what I mean.

BTW, I have less of a personal interest in some of the Bavarian styles, so I have not really investigated them quite as much. I suspect that their situation is similar to that of the UK beers, so my comments probably also apply to them as well.

esprit · Post by **esprit** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 11:39 am

If I can sell 60 cases of something in a year, I would consider bringing it in through Consignment, however, the problem has always been lack of consumer and licensee demand. I rarely get asked for UK beers and when I do, the person wants a case or two....furthermore, even at 60 cases, the retail price will be considerably higher than for any LCBO release of that item. A beer I could retail through the LCBO for $3.50 per 500ml bottle would probably run closer to $4.50 through Consignment and, again, that means that demand would be very low. Other than through my own mailing list, I really don't have any way of reaching consumers to let them know I have a product. We carry a lot of Belgians primarily because we have bar and restaurant clients who can sustain a reasonable volume of business and any consumer sales are gravy. When it comes to UK beers, the demand for Consignment bottled beers from bars is very low since we have so much UK/Irish draft beer in this market. Some of my Belgians in Consignment sell 200-300 cases per year whereas the few UK products we carry (Samuel Smith) can barely do 60 cases. The fact is that if I posted on the Bartowel tomorrow that I could get some incredible UK brews I'd be lukcy if we sold 10 cases. As for the LCBO, they buy what they buy and I've given up trying to figure out some of their logic...I can take a CAMRA Grand Champion to them and they'll insist on having their tasting panel taste it as if CAMRA is not a good judge of beer. I can take a wine to VINTAGES and with a great Wine Spectator review, they'll buy 500 cases sight unseen. We do a brisk business with beer in B.C. and the buyer there is very knowledgeable and buys without tasting based upon reputation.

burgermeister · Post by **burgermeister** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 12:00 pm

On 2003-10-01 11:39, esprit wrote:
If I can sell 60 cases of something in a year, I would consider bringing it in through Consignment, ....

Have you ever thought of trying to start up something like The Opimian Society. These guys essentially purchase cases of wines otherwise not (normally) available thru the LCBO for their membership. Might be worth while looking into how they've set up their operation.

Web site: https://www.opim.ca/frameset/f_about.html

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: burgermeister on 2003-10-01 12:03 ]</font>

Lubiere · Post by **Lubiere** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 12:58 pm

Another Wine connoisseur group in Quebec where thinking of doing the same thing. They actually are dealing with Wagner Vineyards and Brewery (Lodi, NY) to get the beers as private imports for their members, and are looking at other breweries. Saw their booth at the last Mondiale.

esprit · Post by **esprit** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 3:11 pm

I'm quite familiar with the Opimian society and it is quite successful but I do not for one second believe that there is sufficient demand for beer to do something similar...let's face it, when it takes 3-4 months to sell 200 cases of Victory Hopdevil through the LCBO you know that people are just not interested. Let's not confuse the passion for beer of bartowellers for anything resembling commercial viability....there are simply not enough people in Ontario interested in pricey, high quality imports today. We've been doing Consignment for over 10 years and we're not getting rich and demand incfreases only marginally from year to year and, again, it is the bars that keep us afloat as consumer sales represent less than 5% of our business.

JerCraigs · Post by **JerCraigs** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 3:14 pm

On 2003-10-01 15:11, esprit wrote:
I'm quite familiar with the Opimian society and it is quite successful but I do not for one second believe that there is sufficient demand for beer to do something similar...

The fact that most wines cellar better than a lot of beers, and thus its easier to buy a whole case is a help too.

burgermeister · Post by **burgermeister** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 3:43 pm

On 2003-10-01 15:11, esprit wrote:
I'm quite familiar with the Opimian society and it is quite successful but I do not for one second believe that there is sufficient demand for beer to do something similar....

Fair enough. It was just a thought I figured I'd toss out and see if it might have any merit.