FUSS should come to Ontario, and is a TRUE Pint disappearing

cattersley · Post by **cattersley** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:43 pm

I started more then one thread about what is a "Pint", 568 ml, or 20 Oz. A pint is not 500 ml, or 18 Oz. A little while ago a movement in BC to Fess Up to Serving Sizes on menu's started. This got me thinking as I went out for what I thought was a "Pint" at Jack Asters in Whitby. I looked at there menu, and they said how much was a "Pint", did no say how many Oz or ml it was, but what I thought was more interesting is for only 1$ I could upgrade to a 23 Oz beer. Now, that got me to ask the bar tender, how many Oz are in the "Pint" they served, and low and behold she replied 18 Oz, 500 ml or a metric "Pint". Now Jack Asters is a big chain in Ontario and this is B.S. Moving along, I went out with my family to the Courtyard in Courtice, and most of there beers are sponsored by Molson. I started to look at a lot of the glasses being served noticing they were ones I had at home, Richards, Molson, Carlsberg, and then it clicked in my head... I had measured these glasses at home, and they turned out to be 500 ml, all of them. With more reflection I got to thinking about the previous restaurants I had complained about on BA, and then another hit me was that Kelsey's also sponsered by Molson served the same glasses as the Courtyard, and on they're menu they had Pints (18 Oz).

Conclusion, the big brewers at purposely changing the pint in Canada to that of a metric one, perhaps with collusion on the part of some restaurants/bar/tavern big and small...

The spirit on the FUSS movement should come to Ontario, possibly on the part of the Ontario Craft brewers to champion there members to show they still serve a true Pint, 568 ml, 20 Oz, the way it should be.

Thoughts?

saints_gambit · Post by **saints_gambit** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:42 pm

Your conclusion is flawed.

This is a problem that has existed for longer than a month.

Look, we're a metric nation. You buy gas in litres and milk in litre bags. The fact that you are using millilitres to make your point reduces your point to nonsense. You are using a unit of measurement of which 500 constitutes a pint to suggest that a pint is actually 568.

Here's the thing. You probably know a bunch of places where they serve nonic pints in 568. That's awesome. Go to those places. They are giving you more. It's a bonus. Cherish it. Cherish your extra 68 millilitres. Cherish them. They are your reward for going to a place where they serve a "true" pint of beer and where british ex-pats while away the hours with this very argument.

Derek · Post by **Derek** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:20 pm

Also, the US pint has been 16 oz (473 mL) since 1824.

But since people refer to 500 ml, 18 oz and 20 oz as a pint all the time, it has really lost all meaning.

Same as the glass, sleeve, schooner and even the pitcher. They don't use a standard unit of measure.

Just tell me the freak'n size!

Frere Ambroise · Post by **Frere Ambroise** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:28 pm

You buy gas in litres and milk in litre bags.

Wait a sec 'saint gambit' -- I don't know which unicorn, elven lyre playing mystic country you come from where you buy milk in 'litre bags' but you got me thinking -- I get my milk in 3 bags that equal 4 litres. That means each bag is 1.333333 ml -- now matter how you squeeze that teat - I am missing .000001 ml of milk. It's those Dairy Farmers and their marketing board - controlling the market and the price and now you made me realize they rob me of the very last drop!

Damn those cows and their stranglehold on our need for liquid from mammary glands.

I propose a new campaign - FOMGAAROLDYBB - Free Our Mammory Gland Addiction and Release Our Last Drop You Bovine Bastards!

I`ll get started on the T-shirt design...

cattersley · Post by **cattersley** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:50 am

I can't tell you how many places I have been in where there is not unit of measure, no price, and no abv... actually price is the biggest one I notice. Half the time asking your server they can't even tell you the price, the unit, or abv, they also are now adding the bar taxes after the price, and not directly in the price, which they used to do when i was a younger...

Oh, if you start selling the t-shirts, I will buy one...

The point is honesty... and be forward with your customers, respecting them, and respecting beer. Over the course of a year, this is a lot money in the pockets of retailers. If Ontario went to sleeves, would people complain then?
We are quite a ho-hum complacent country...

Kel Varnsen · Post by **Kel Varnsen** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:19 am

cattersley wrote:I can't tell you how many places I have been in where there is not unit of measure, no price, and no abv... actually price is the biggest one I notice. Half the time asking your server they can't even tell you the price, the unit, or abv, they also are now adding the bar taxes after the price, and not directly in the price, which they used to do when i was a younger...

I would say the price is a bigger one for me. I have lost count of how many times I have gone to a bar, and even if they have a printed tap list (a lot of places you still have to ask) there aren't any prices. If they could just get that across the board I would be happy (since I always feel like a cheap bastard for asking prices, although I have been burned before when I didn't). Having menus or lists that printed the volume of beer you get (and I don't care what that volume is) would be a bonus.

JeffPorter · Post by **JeffPorter** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:36 am

I also don't really care about volume, or even what it's called. You can serve me a beer 360ml nonic and call it a "pint" for all I care - just charge me an appropriate amount...

I always thought that the discussions about "this bar not serving proper pints" were weird. As long as there charging you a "fair" amount, who cares?

Frankly, these days I'm drinking more and more half pints. I often find a "pint" too much.

Also, beer is simply getting more and more expensive.

Having said that, we're a metric country - I like the way volo does it - they give prices on their board and the size is in ml.

Tapsucker · Post by **Tapsucker** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:28 pm

cattersley wrote:I can't tell you how many places I have been in where there is not unit of measure, no price, and no abv... actually price is the biggest one I notice. Half the time asking your server they can't even tell you the price, the unit, or abv, they also are now adding the bar taxes after the price, and not directly in the price, which they used to do when i was a younger...

Oh, if you start selling the t-shirts, I will buy one...

The point is honesty... and be forward with your customers, respecting them, and respecting beer. Over the course of a year, this is a lot money in the pockets of retailers. If Ontario went to sleeves, would people complain then?
We are quite a ho-hum complacent country...

Part of your problem is the places you are patronizing. Try asking your server how much fat, salt, colouring or other crap is in the food they serve you. Heck, try asking them if they know where it came from. As long as people eat and/or drink in crap factories, those places will profit without bothering to respect their customers. You're essentially going to Walmart and complaining about the quality; you're pushing a string uphill.

Ale's What Cures Ya · Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:41 pm

The metric system is the tool of the devil. My car gets 40 rods to the hogshead and that's the way I likes it.

JerCraigs · Post by **JerCraigs** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:53 pm

Ale's What Cures Ya wrote:The metric system is the tool of the devil. My car gets 40 rods to the hogshead and that's the way I likes it.

well played sir.

The pint issue is that the majority of people really don't care about. I do wish more places listed their prices/volume more prominently though. Especially if Beer X and Beer Y on the list are served in different volumes.

Derek · Post by **Derek** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:36 pm

Survey says?
http://smallbeerblog.blogspot.ca/2011/0 ... toria.html

Someone should do a survey in T.O., and for anyone still using a 'shaker' pint, it'd be interesting to follow-up with a beer gauge:
http://www.thebeergauge.com/

Steve Beaumont · Post by **Steve Beaumont** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:39 pm

This really couldn't be more simple. If a place doesn't post what they are pouring and how much of it they are pouring and what it costs, don't patronize it. If you feel strongly about it, let them know, not necessarily at that precise moment, but through their website or by calling the manager midday. Bars and restaurants, especially chain restaurants, are hugely desirous of politely delivered customer feedback and often take heed.

What they don't do is read the Bartowel forums. Just sayin'...

Belgian · Post by **Belgian** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:00 pm

It seems that every product manufacturer or seller has one agenda - steadily increasing profits, often at the cost of declining quality or repackaging with less product. This is done for better optics than price increases, so that they can maintain brand loyalty - the customer often isn't aware they're getting squeezed because of the illusion.

And beer in Ontario hasn't gotten cheaper, either. It's a double-whammy for us that we're often paying more for less.

irishkyle21 · Post by **irishkyle21** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:10 pm

If you go to any bar, restaurant or anywhere serving alcohol in Ontario they MUST have serving sizes and prices available to the customer. It is a liquor law, if they don't you can always complain and tell the manager you will be contacting the local liquor inspector.

Derek · Post by **Derek** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:47 pm

Steve Beaumont wrote:This really couldn't be more simple. If a place doesn't post what they are pouring and how much of it they are pouring and what it costs, don't patronize it. If you feel strongly about it, let them know, not necessarily at that precise moment, but through their website or by calling the manager midday. Bars and restaurants, especially chain restaurants, are hugely desirous of politely delivered customer feedback and often take heed.

What they don't do is read the Bartowel forums. Just sayin'...

Very true. There is power in numbers though, and a few media-types that poke their head in here... Just sayin'.