Coming soon at The Granite Brewery: growlers to go!

Mississauga Matt · Post by **Mississauga Matt** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 1:37 pm

Evidently the Granite Brewery at Mount Pleasant and Eglinton will be offering their draught beers in 1.9 litre take away growlers. I do not know the price nor any details around deposits etc. Contact them for details.

Cass · Post by **Cass** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:20 pm

Wow. I didn't think that was legal. If so, great news!

Cass · Post by **Cass** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 3:09 pm

The law doesn't look like it's changed:

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/DBLaws/Regs ... P323_42165

JerCraigs · Post by **JerCraigs** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 3:22 pm

My understanding (don't quote me) is that Ron Keefe was changing his license to become a brewery and will have a separate entrance for the brewery and the pub. Growlers would thus be sold from the brewery, NOT the pub. I don't think there is anything preventing breweries from selling growlers other than cost and inconvenience... is there? (He says not having read the link Cass posted.)

Mississauga Matt · Post by **Mississauga Matt** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 3:24 pm

Well all I can tell you is that the restaurant is plastered with "Coming Soon: The Granite Beer Store" signs, and the waitress showed me one of the branded growlers, and told me how by next week at the soonest I could come in and get one filled up for take away.

She didn't know all of the details, but this is what I was told.

Cass · Post by **Cass** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 3:44 pm

Interesting. However, unless things have changed, Ontario law prevents breweries from owning bars. This is so Molson/Labatt doesn't own all the bars in the country (like in the UK). This also forced Amsterdam's hand a number of years ago and they decided to become just a brewery.

Now we all know that they have a bar there anyway, so I don't know all the details. Breweries also aren't allowed to use celebrities in their advertising but Molson did with Don Cherry, so maybe things are loosening up. Let's hope so!

burgermeister · Post by **burgermeister** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 4:57 pm

On 2003-08-07 15:44, Cass wrote:
Interesting. However, unless things have changed, Ontario law prevents breweries from owning bars.

I think you'll find that the laws have changed. While a brewpub still cannot sell it's product outside of the pub - all product must remain on site - the tied house laws have now been changed to allow a brewery to have an on premesis pub/restaurant. I had a look at one of the government websites and I believe I'm correct. A brewery will not be allowed to own a chain of pubs as in the U.K., they will be allowed a pub on site with the brewery.

Consequently, Mr. Keefe has been busily working to change his license from that of a brewpub to that of a brewery, creating a separate entrance from the pub, and setting up some retail space.

Check out the Alcohol and Gaming comission Website:

http://www.agco.on.ca/en/b.alcohol/b6.1.tiedhouses.html

Publican · Post by **Publican** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 8:23 pm

I've forwarded this thread to Ron and asked him to clarify and tell us the date they go on sale.

Ron Keefe · Post by **Ron Keefe** » Fri Aug 08, 2003 10:32 am

It is about time I joined up. I just received a note asking me to post a reply to clarify the growler situation at the Granite.

Yes indeed, after many years of "fighting" we are finally starting to sell beer to go. Some of the responses have it right. Just before Christmas, AGCO regulations were changed to allow breweries one "tied house" at the site of the brewery. High taxes didn't make it worthwhile at that time, but when provincial beer taxes were slashed earlier this May it made it much more attractive, especially since the tax reduction was not extended to brew pubs.

So the Granite has "converted" to a full brewery licence with a tied house and retail store. For the customer nothing has changed except for a slightly smaller bar and front patio where our retail store has been built. The customer can also buy Granite ale to go. It will be offered in 1.9 L growlers for $11.50 including tax plus a $4.00 deposit on the growler (these things are very expensive!). Since this is a new venture we are still working on a number of things. Six of our ales are counter pressure filled into the growlers. We will not be pushing our cask ale in growlers since it will not last long. However, if a someone really wants one for a party that night for example, we will fill it directly from the hand pump and tell them it must be consumed very quickly. All growler transactions must be made in the store and customers are not allowed to take a growler into the pub, (AGCO regulations, not the Granite).

The store will be open 7 days a week with actual hours to be decided soon. If all goes well we may do a soft opening this weekend (Aug 8-10) and officially open within the week.

Since we can also sell to other pubs we will be may be looking for 3 or 4 good pubs to carry Granite ales this fall. We will not be a big player to say the least since we only have capacity for another 10-12 kegs a week.

Hope this clarifies things and cheers to all.

joey_capps · Post by **joey_capps** » Fri Aug 08, 2003 11:40 am

Welcome Ron. Hope this also means that we'll soon see you at some of the festivals as well. As for pubs, the Winking Judge in Hamilton might be a good choice. I know it's not directly in your market, but they are a player in the Ontario beer scene.

Joe

Cass · Post by **Cass** » Fri Aug 08, 2003 1:52 pm

Excellent news! Welcome to the forum Ron, and thanks very much for the update.

Cass · Post by **Cass** » Sun Aug 10, 2003 10:27 am

I went to the Granite last night to check out the new store. It's doesn't take up a lot of room - it's very narrow, and runs along the north wall of the bar (in fact, it's behind their big TV they have in the front). There's a sliding door beside the patio where you can access the store - you can't get to the store from inside the pub.

Overall, very cool to see the Granite selling their beers to go. The growlers are nice, with a silkscreened label on the front and back - all of them are the same, there's an area on the back of the growler to check off the brand.

The only drawback, as Ron mentioned is that you can't bring a growler into a pub. This is problematic since the store closes at 11pm, so since I was at the pub past that time I couldn't get one to take home. Hopefully these rules will ease up over time - I'm sure we've all seen people with LCBO bags in bars before.

This leads me to another thought: is this setup going to be the future of brewpubs in Toronto? With the Granite now officially a brewery, we have no brewpubs (C'est What excluded for obvious reasons). With all the limitations on brewpubs, it probably makes more sense to simply set up a brewery with a tied house instead. Time will tell (if we get any more "brewpubs", that is!)

JerCraigs · Post by **JerCraigs** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 10:06 am

Yes and no. Was discussing this with someone else and in some cases it's not practical to make the switch. Kingston Brewing for example would have to give up a lot of bar real estate in order to set up a store and brew area separation, so they would have to really want to do it.

Rob Creighton · Post by **Rob Creighton** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 11:37 pm

I would be shocked to ever see another brewpub licence issued.
This change is a simple economic answer to the question of whether or not you can make money in this game.
If Ron sells another 12 kegs a week (or 365 hectolitres per year) and brings his system to capacity, is he then able to make a buck and not have to attempt to open another Beer Street?
Look at what Merchant Ale House or Walkerville could do or what Denison's might have done. We might see breweries in far more attractive locations.
Michigan Brewing near Lansing sells approx. 3000 bbl but his most profitable pints go across his bar where he does close to 1/2 a million in sales from a dozen taps and up until recently only had only peanuts available as food. Growlers, party pigs, 5 gal. kegs, 1/2 bbls and cases all go out of a bar located behind some diesal pumps at a truck stop on I96. And everybody stops for a beer.
Combined with the recent tax reductions for micro's, I hope we see a lot of folks looking for financing in the near future.
Question: will Gordon-Biersch follow suit with the monster system they have?

Publican · Post by **Publican** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 12:49 am

Why Can't brewpubs sell beer directly over the bar? If they could Ron could have saved money. I recieved a e-mail from Ron yesterday and his sales hours seem to be the same as the LCBO. I mean come on no sales after 6pm on Sunday and 11am to 11pm on Monday to Saturday. Sounds like the LCBO and the big bad Molson and Interbrew want to limit competion!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Publican on 2003-08-13 00:51 ]</font>