Perspective on Ontario beer

[cratez]

I also don't think expecting the growth curve in places like London or Hamilton to keep pace with Toronto and Ottawa is realistic.

I would never expect this. The point related to metros of ~475,000 (London) and ~775,000 (Hamilton) typically having brewpubs in the states.

People can have different viewpoints, I respect yours.

Well, in true Canadian (Ontarian?) fashion, I'm willing to leave it at that. And I respect your view as well, *particularly* your contributions to beer reviews and style descriptions and the dense historical knowledge that you bring to these discussions.

I'd also like to add that, regardless of where we think our scene has reached on the progression scale (the parameters of which aren't quite clear), Jeff's original post is reflective of what everyone can agree on i.e. that beer in this province is improving significantly and at a rate that many of us did not foresee only a few years ago. N.C. has a thriving beer culture and Asheville was recently selected as the site of Sierra Nevada's eastern brewery expansion, so the fact that one of their beer nerds found immense joy in our locals is a testament to ONT's development.

[NRman]

According to the TTC NRman is my father.

That's my boy!!

[JeffPorter]

I think Windsor has/had one, but not a craft brewpub.

Yeah, it was Charly's, but it closed in April. It was not a... highbrow establishment to say the least.

Also - Brampton has Tracks

[matt7215]

I have always felt that the Wellington RIS is under-rated. I think it lives in that unfortunate arena with Unibroue, and St. Ambroise Oatmeal stout in that we tend to forget about it because its "always" around.

add sinha stout and aventinus to that list

We're really not all that far behind the US. I keep saying it, but no one wants to believe it yet.

I sort of wonder what it will take.

good craft beer distrobution outside of the GTA would really help, sure we have a bunch of new one offs now but that does nothing for people outside of the GTA for the most part

We're definitely getting there in terms of the quality of (some) of our beers. Most local breweries are now making at least one spectacular beer, whereas a few years ago, they weren't (see: Nickelbrook, Cameron's).

But I don't think we're anywhere near the US at this point, and mostly due to a lack of selection. Nowhere in Ontario can you walk into an LCBO and say "wow, look at this selection!" because it's the same as every other LCBO, or worse. The LCBO releases are nice, and have been getting better, but that's 10-12 new beers what, 6 times a year? That's pretty shitty and in no way compares to stores in Buffalo.

And the last frustration is that the new beers we all love from these breweries are mostly brewery-only. Of the last few months: Black Oak 10BY, Tempest, RPA, all the interesting Great Lakes releases bar the porter have all been brewery-only and in limited capacity.

and its not like these breweries couldnt get these products into the LCBO, Trafalgar can get every beer they make into the LCBO, sometimes in multiple formats

[matt7215]

What do we *really* want? Do you want 100 different beers on the shelf? Or would it be enough to have 5 good stouts, 5 good IPAs, 5 good pale ales, etc. on the shelf all the time, with rotating features throughout the year? Frankly I don't need 20 IPAs at the LCBO *all* the time. Just getting more readily available bottles of some of the stuff currently getting made would be a good start!

completely agree with this, it will be interesting to see what the next thing our breweries decide to actually distibute with a big year round LCBO listing

5 years ago we had one IPA, Sgt Majors now we have:
Flying Monkeys Smash Bomb Atomic IPA
Muskoka Mad Tom IPA
Grand River Curmudgeon IPA
Beaus Beaver River IP Eh
Amsterdam Boneshaker IPA
Nickel Brook Headstock IPA
Mike Duggan Number 9 IPA
Lake of Bays 10 Point IPA
Railway City Dead Elephant Ale
Double Trouble Hops and Robbers IPA
and Spearhead on the way,

but there are still so many basic craft styles that not one of our breweries makes with wide distribution. when is one of our many capable breweries going to realize that there is still tons of opportunity to capitalize on the complete lack of so many of the styles we crave

[Inkling]

The list of IPAs reminds me that as much as I admire the US microbrew scene, it can seem like a bit of a one-trick-pony at times. You go into a lot of stores and it's shelves upon shelves of IPAs, APAs....much of a muchness. There's a lot of great beer down there but sometimes you have to search a bit to get the Ommegangs etc.

This thread has been all about Ontario versus the US (in typical Canadian fashion...there are over 200 countries on planet earth but we only seem to be able to compare ourselves to one of them). I hope we can develop our own beer personality in Ontario. If we have to emulate some other neighbouring territory, I'd much prefer we emulate Quebec than the US. They do some great IPAs but have a much wider variety of styles that are readily available.

[sprague11]

I am not sure that we have caught up to quebec yet but I think we are closer than we have ever been. Some of the recent offerings have been every bit as exciting as what we would find in british columbia or quebec. It took a bit but I believe a goos chunk of the masses have caught on - at least in toronto london and ottawa.

A tad off topic and maybe rherorical, but why the hell are we not mass producing and bottling karma citra yet?

[TheSevenDuffs]

A tad off topic and maybe rherorical, but why the hell are we not mass producing and bottling karma citra yet?

I have wondered that for a while. Maybe they are tinkering the recipe slightly each time? Maybe they can't get enough citra hops?

I have been hearing that they might be bottling Lake Effect for the LCBO in the near future and it shocks me that it would get there before Karma Citra.

[A]

I am not sure that we have caught up to quebec yet but I think we are closer than we have ever been. Some of the recent offerings have been every bit as exciting as what we would find in british columbia or quebec. It took a bit but I believe a goos chunk of the masses have caught on - at least in toronto london and ottawa.

A tad off topic and maybe rherorical, but why the hell are we not mass producing and bottling karma citra yet?

Caught up to Quebec? IMO Ontario already has much more style diversity than Quebec