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What's up with LCBO?

Discuss beer or anything else that comes to mind in here.

Moderators: Craig, Cass

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al
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2003 7:00 pm
Location: Toronto

Post by al »

Hi all

On Saturday I went to the LCBO at the Oshawa Centre. This locatation is the biggest one in Oshawa and usually has the beer I want. I had hoped to get some Chimay, Leffe, Duvel and maybe a 6 of Hoegaarden. Well to my suprise the store did not have any of the above, and the only one that they will be getting in is the Hoegaarden. I asked why this was and was told that back a little while ago the LCBO had been taking peoples psotal codes to find out where what beer was and was not selling and to adjust the stock kept on hand accordingly. This makes sense in a business sense, I guess. But for me specificly, it sucks. According to the LCBO I will now have to drive to Ajax to be able to get all of these beers in one stop or check there product information on the web site and call the stores to confirm the beer is actual there, and then go drive around and get it. But most likely I'll just brew more home brew and purchase Unibroue from the beer store (the LCBO's in Oshawa do not have Unibroue either). Does anyone have any idea if this is the way the LCBO is going or if the Lady I spoke with is way off base. Also has anyone else noticed this?

Thanks
Al

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: al on 2003-09-02 09:58 ]</font>

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JerCraigs
Beer Superstar
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Joined: Sun May 25, 2003 8:00 pm
Location: Toronto

Post by JerCraigs »

There has been a push at the LCBO to clear the shelves of non-sellers. Something called "core branding" or similar. I forget the details but I think the gist of it is 'only stock what sells'.

In terms of availability that may not work out great for all of us, but hopefully that means fresher bottles of product if it is on in the stores where it sells? Maybe?

esprit
Seasoned Drinker
Posts: 1677
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2001 8:00 pm
Location: Esprit Agencies-Toronto

Post by esprit »

As the agent for Chimay and Duvel we are running into this problem all over the province...the LCBO seems determined to make it virtually impossible for small brands to survive...yet they keep on buying them pretending that they have a chance. If I were you I'd talk directly to the store manager and ask him to explain to you why not a single store in Oshawa carries these 2 brands and how he can justify the largest store in the city not being able to offer them...get mad...demand action...threaten to call Andy Brandt!!!

Maudite
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 7:00 pm

Post by Maudite »

I just came back from visiting my LCBO's north of the city. I decided to pop into the Davisville store and couldn't believe what I was seeing. 90% of micros are gone. We had 6 listings in this store and are now done to 2. Black Oak lost the Pale ale, Camerons is gone, Durham as well. McAuslan is done to just the Pale. More skews of: Milwaukee's best, Black Ice (large cans), Faxe and all the other yummy stuff. I knew that this day would eventually come, however didn't realize the impact its going to affect the likes of smaller breweries. Who ever said "Monopoly" was ever fun?

al
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2003 7:00 pm
Location: Toronto

Post by al »

On Saturday I did speak with a manager but not the store manager, so I will be return to the LCBO in hopes of speaking to him. I'm really quite mad about all this. Getting good beer in Ontario was already fairly difficult, now it will even be harder. So esprit do you have Andy Brandt's number. If not I'll try to get the store manager to get me to the district manager.

rabbit
Posts: 117
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2001 8:00 pm

Post by rabbit »

Andy's number is 416-864-2519...good luck! Not that you'll get to speak him, I've tried...in the area of beer, the LCBO will always argue that they are not a monopoly and that any producer can go to the Beer Store and sell their products if they're not happy with the LCBO, however, the truth is only the big guys can afford to pay to be in the Beer Store and you'll never see imported craft brews there. Until such time as the government allows some private competition (e.g. Nova Scotia has allowed the opening of 4 private beer/wine stores recently and although their liquor board wouldn't buy any craft beer, 3 of these 4 stores are really interested and will be bringing in a variety of UK, Belgian and U.S. products...Manitoba and B.C. also have private stores and all stores in Alberta are private) you will never see a selection of Beer in Toronto comparable to what you can find in a backwater like Buffalo...when your provincial Liberal candidate comes knocking, might be worth mentioning. Last time they were in power under Petersen, he toyed with the idea of allowing beer into corner stores but the public outcry was perceived to be so intense, they backed off. The LCBO's employee's union consistently fights any form of private competiton by claiming that private operators will not turn away under-age drinkers or intoxicated persons because only an overpaid, underworked unionized employee who knows absolutely nothing about what he is selling can be trusted to do that.

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Rob Creighton
Bar Fly
Posts: 851
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 8:00 pm
Location: Dundas, ON

Post by Rob Creighton »

The evolutionary process is far too slow for somebody with my lack of patience. I do not expect my local Beer Store(Fergus) and LCBO combo store(Elora) to be able to carry every thing my heart desires but I would like a reasonable option within striking distance. The Ontario wine industry has certainly benefited from outlets in grocery stores but having each store dominated by 1 winery makes them virtually useless to me. I have heard that the present government has considered a program (similar to the wine industry incentives) to support the cottage brewing industry because the economic impact is spread across so many communities in Ontario. The recent changes to the tax rates for small brewers and the ability to have a tied house can be seen as part of these changes but...
the cynic in me sees a series of "Upper Canada" and "Sleeman" outlets spread across the province instead of an alternate distribution/retail channel that allows me to sample an array of alternate brands.
I would be interested to know if Howard from Creemore or Ken Woods has had the opportunity to suggest something like this and what response there has been.

PRMason
Bar Fly
Posts: 873
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2001 8:00 pm
Location: Fitzroy Harbour, ON

Post by PRMason »

Rob,
GATT and NAFTA pretty much ended the winery retail store thing. Licenses for stores that existed before 1990 were grand-fathered and since then no new licenses have been granted. If a winery wants to open a new outlet, it must first close an existing one and transfer that license. This was prompted by pressure from large U.S. wineries (esp. Gallo) to have their own stores as well. Ontario wineries were seen to be at a competitive advantage because of their additional sources of retail.
Breweries would likely face the same problem.

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Rob Creighton
Bar Fly
Posts: 851
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 8:00 pm
Location: Dundas, ON

Post by Rob Creighton »

Hi Perry - I had heard that the wine store licence gravytrain had ended but I guess I fear some strange "well intentioned" similar effort which benefits some brewers (read: those with cash and influence) and limits the efforts of the up-and-comers (read: you). One option I have discussed with friends is a branch retail operation of the LCBO (it obviously couldn't come from The Beer Store) which is focused on Ontario based micro's with a volume limit. The idea here is still political in that it would have to be a marketing program for local industry and would have to exclude imports but the more I think about it, the more unlikely it sounds. Another is the "store within the store" idea focused on an Ontario marketing program but I don't think this would really help drive new sales. It might prevent stores from discontinuing carrying some products though. All in all, I am looking for a better distribution/retail option and have yet to see the light. Cheers.

al
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2003 7:00 pm
Location: Toronto

Post by al »

So I called Andy's office. I got no where. I was advised to call customer service and share my concerns with them. So I did. They told me that I could talk to the store manager and get him to ordering cases of what I want and they could keep them in the back and I could come and buy them individually any time I want. I went to the store and spoke to a manager and they said that with the computer system it would not work right know for them to order a case for me. I lost it at this time. They apologized and suggested I come back next week when a different manager might be able to help me. I have not gone back as off yet. I’ve been to Ajax a few times, and have being digging into my stores. So that’s where things are at in the beer starved regions of Oshawa.

esprit
Seasoned Drinker
Posts: 1677
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2001 8:00 pm
Location: Esprit Agencies-Toronto

Post by esprit »

Whoever told you that the computer system prevented them from ordering anything either lied or doesn't know what they're talking about...give it another go and if you get nowhere tell them you're going to call the District Manager and I'll get you their name and number.

Rubaiyat
Posts: 141
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2002 8:00 pm
Location: Rubaiyat Wine and Spirit Merchants
Contact:

Post by Rubaiyat »

Isn't it fun to be living in the Soviet Union of Ontario ...

al
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2003 7:00 pm
Location: Toronto

Post by al »

:lol: :lol:

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