Serious Question: What's the deal with Trafalgar?

groulxsome · Post by **groulxsome** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:02 pm

Since I moved to Toronto (a little over a year and a half ago - from Newfoundland) I've been really, really enjoying the beer scene here and - I think - I've tried just about everything. For an emerging craft beer community I have to say that there are relatively few "duds" among the offerings of all the breweries in Ontario, which is impressive.

The one thing I have noted in my quest to drink Ontario is that everything Trafalger does is in unmitigated disaster (the Maple Bock was so very upsetting). I've seen the hate on the forums and review sites too.

So... What's the deal? Is there some history? Did they used to be good? Were they ever involved in the beer community? Did they loose their minds drinking bad mead? Do they care that their beer is awful? And, most pressingly, how do they stay in business when they always have elaborate bottles with fairly wide distribution in the LCBO? Is it just on non-beer drinkers trying these for the novelty?

Please, someone help me understand Trafalger's deal! How do they stay in business when so many Ontario breweries are constantly raising the bar?

sprague11 · Post by **sprague11** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:09 pm

This brewery has always puzzled me with how they have managed to stay in existance this long. Maybe mead sales are through the roof, I dunno.

I've had a few passable beers from them ages ago (Hop Nouveau in 2009, Left Coast Pale Ale with about a week on it, Their winter beer a few years back) but everything else has ranged from "off" (India Ink) to undrinkable shit (Maple Box, the three strong beers in airline bottles). I'm no brewer, but I suspect it may be a combination of crappy yeast, dirty equipment and an inept brewmaster.

I have yet to get an email back from this brewery about any concerns I had which leads me to believe they either don't give a shit, or are so inept that they cannot answer their own email, let alone brew decent beer.

Belgian · Post by **Belgian** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:44 pm

They can actually brew decent beers, though these may sometimes tend to be a little thin or under-carbonated (consider Belgian Abbey Ale for example). At the brewery the beers are reportedly drinkable.

Trafalgar brew an admirable range of styles and try to put their own twist on them, which is really their best trait even if the odd one is a bit hard to drink.

The bottle infections - unintentional sourness, messy kitchen volcanoes, brief shelf life and general nasty - are legendary. Almost trademark. This is I think the main cause of the 'hate', followed by a few beers considered by some to be awful, then followed by the watery ho-hum 'almost good' quality of some brews.

Used to be Trafalgar was the only really 'inventive' brewery taking chances in Ontario - although I think that's changed a great deal in the past 5-6 years. I used to hold out a faint hope they would improve, but now with other breweries bringing us bolder, more exciting beers this doesn't seem to be relevant anymore.

Trafalgar Brewing have, so far as I recall never discussed their apparent quality shortcomings on this forum. That's a bit tragic, since every ambitious brewery has the potential to be an ally in the cause of great beer.

JeffPorter · Post by **JeffPorter** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:26 pm

There have been a few that I've not minded - I remember not minding that Oak Aged Rye, and when it was fresh that "Left Coast" pale ale wasn't all that bad. And I think they did a Christmas Ale that wasn't bad, either.

Interesting point about them never coming here - a few years ago I sent them an email as well, that never got answered. I've visited the brewery a couple time.

My question is, if QC is such an issue, how do the Black Creek beers turn out ok?

They are a brewery that I always want to be better, but they never are and I always take chances with new stuff (haven't with the porter yet) but always get burned.

JesseM · Post by **JesseM** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:49 pm

Sending an email to them now is met with an immediate response from the server saying the message couldn't be sent.

They are completely unaccountable for their legendary QC issues. They focus on gimmicky beers with labeling meant to catch the passing eye. Maybe they're secretly owned by Molson's as a way to scare new-comers away from craft beer.

skaghevn · Post by **skaghevn** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:41 pm

JeffPorter wrote:I always take chances with new stuff (haven't with the porter yet) but always get burned.

Having had "enjoyed" one, you're not missing much.

Had only Niagara Brewing had the staying power that Traf does...

toweringpine · Post by **toweringpine** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:41 pm

JeffPorter wrote: My question is, if QC is such an issue, how do the Black Creek beers turn out ok?

That is what I've been wondering?

Most of the Black Creek stuff I've tried I bought the first time I saw it so I assume it was relatively fresh. Has anyone knowingly tried an 'older' Black Creek brew?

S. St. Jeb · Post by **S. St. Jeb** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:50 pm

JesseM wrote:Maybe they're secretly owned by Molson's as a way to scare new-comers away from craft beer.

General Ivolgin · Post by **General Ivolgin** » Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:00 pm

So what is their relationship with the LCBO? How is it that they continue to occupy shelf space?

JerCraigs · Post by **JerCraigs** » Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:38 pm

toweringpine wrote: Most of the Black Creek stuff I've tried I bought the first time I saw it so I assume it was relatively fresh. Has anyone knowingly tried an 'older' Black Creek brew?

I recently dumped a Black Creek Stout, but it had been in my cellar for upwards of six months so that is not outrageous.

Belgian · Post by **Belgian** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:54 pm

JeffPorter wrote:My question is, if QC is such an issue, how do the Black Creek beers turn out ok?

It has been speculated (or stated?) on BT that the excellent Black Creek beers contracted at Trafalgar are not bottled there, and it may be bottling rather than brewing process that is accountable for the frequent Trafalgar infections. I really like the Black Creek brews.

As an aside, beers like Old Mill / Elora / Paddy's are also Trafalgar's own year-round brands. I had an Elora ESB that smelled & tasted almost like a flemish sour. This oddity was from an OCB Discovery Pack, and the LC staff person actually warned me there was one 'disgusting' beer in the six... Discovery, indeed! More like a public warning.

shintriad · Post by **shintriad** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:17 pm

I would love to see a Reddit-style "ask me anything" exchange on this forum with the Trafalgar folks. It really is a mystery in this province. And not in a good way — it's just kind of annoying. Maybe they need a Frank D'Angelo type to be their mouthpiece.

phirleh · Post by **phirleh** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:01 pm

shintriad wrote:I would love to see a Reddit-style "ask me anything" exchange on this forum with the Trafalgar folks. It really is a mystery in this province. And not in a good way — it's just kind of annoying. Maybe they need a Frank D'Angelo type to be their mouthpiece.

I'd love to see an IamA too, but considering the "Frank" issues on this board in the past, do you think that would be a good thing?

JeffPorter · Post by **JeffPorter** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:11 pm

Itching to know what that's referring to...

phirleh · Post by **phirleh** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:42 pm

JeffPorter wrote:Itching to know what that's referring to...

Bartowel Steelback brewery tour
Frank, Frank, Frank
Frank D'Angelo Suicide Watch
It was slightly before my time here, but there are loads of Frankisms.