Big bottles equals Wines...?????

[Torontoblue]

NY Times writer, Clay Risen (who's day job is writing about Bourbon & spirits), tries his hand at writing about the "new craze for large bottles in the craft beer scene".....and the "wine-fication" of beer???.................he should stick to his usual day job!!

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/06/dinin ... -stir.html

And a wonderful riposte from Jay Brooks & Garrett Oliver,

http://brookstonbeerbulletin.com/big-bo ... uals-wine/

[Derek]

Those are some great responses.

(Much better than me just shaking my head... though I guess being lost for words is sort of a statement.)

[Belgian]

I don’t mind good brewers releasing large-format products, and I hope their doing so encourages them to always put something inside those big bottles that is commensurate with the price.

[El Pinguino]

I can't quite figure out what the preferred packaging is for beers at the LCBO.

A while back they seemed to be pushing local brewers into cans.
Then they seemed to want regular size bottles...so we lost the big Unibroue bottles.
Now we've got a ton of big bottles happening.

I guess they're stricter with regular listed products...but it's a mystery to me.

[JeffPorter]

I have to admit that I'm a little put off by 750ml sometimes, but I think that's mostly a mental thing on my part. I have no problem with 500ml and 750 isn't really that much more than a full pint, so I'm not sure what my problem is.

Garrett kicked that article's ass up and down the internets and good for him...

[ErkLR]

By the spring I am a bit tired of large-format 8%+ beers, and wish they'd offer them in small sizes as well as the large, but I never thought it was about trying to be like wine.

I do understand the reasoning, especially for more limited beers, bottling fewer bottles in larger volumes makes sense. It's not like I don't buy them anyways.

[Tapsucker]

I suspect that if you spent years building a career and reputation around being able to write about the nuances of wine, or whatever level of 'critic' you became, you would be more inclined to criticize the new gallery next to your museum than actually visit it and see what's inside.

We somehow think that writers are open minded explorers that will report back to us with new information, but really many are just trying to defend their position, even if they don't realize they are doing it themselves.

I would, however, like to see a bar where you could bring in a pompous ass and a hipster, give them each a 750Ml bottle of their tribal signature, sit them down in a circle on the floor, blow a whistle and then just leave while they drink and whine about which one is more clever...

[Belgian]

Hmm dunno taps, I think learning about 'the nuances of' wine opened my appreciation of all food and drink including beer. Everyone should be welcome to the party.

And Jeff, I have to admit there's a growing army of 750's and bombers crowding my cellar. These cool-looking bottles just don't beckon me to try them right away, not like a fresh six-pack of IPA I just brought home...

[El Pinguino]

Gotta agree with Belgian on this one. I write on a number of topics and sometimes when it's not my particular expertise, I spend more time researching and reading about the story than I do writing it. In this case, it seemed like a haphazardly written piece.

[Bytowner]

Being my typical curmudgeonly self, I actually kinda agree that it's about the wine-fication of beer. I still think there's a bit of an insecurity in craft beer and a weird need to prove that beer is just as sophisticated as wine. You may or may not enjoy large format beers, but the more negative part for me is the barrel-aging and flavour additions that are the hallmark of so many de jour brews, attempts, to my mind, to make beers more complex than they need to be.

[JeffPorter]

My problem with the term "wine-ification" seems to be the same as Garrett Oliver: why is wine the bench mark or sophification? I love wine, and I came to beer through wine, but I don't see us beer drinkers as being insecure. In fact, most "beer geeks" I know also have a great knowledge and appreciation.

I actually thought the first article seemed to have a hint of insecurity. Garrett's response just seemed frustrated as though he's had to make it a million times before.

The beer vs. wine thing, in my mind, is a false dichotomy that is perpetuated by people who either enjoy one or the other.

Bytowner, interesting thought about complexity, though I tend to disagree. Beer is already pretty complex, and if we MUST make a comparison, already inherently more complex than wine just because of the fact that it uses more ingredients.

I agree, though, that sometimes barrel-aging can cover up a beer's flavour - a lot of people had that same reaction to barrel-aged Peche.

But I think there's a time and a place for everything. Many wine drinkers prefer unoaked chardonnay, but like a really oaky pinot noir. I don't want all my stouts to be aged in Jack Daniels barrels, but I sure like it when the odd one is...

[Rob Creighton]

I often start beer & wine dinners where I am speaking with a discussion on the simplicity of beer as an alcoholic beverage. Barley malt, water, yeast & hops provides us with the greatest beverage on earth.

I follow up with, "It is simplicity itself. The only simpler and less sophisticated alcoholic beverage is wine (I leave out mead as I am taking a direct shot at the wine maker sitting at the table). The art of beer making is in the handling as beer is delicate and susceptible to spoilage organisms. Wine as the product of fermenting simple grape juice is hardy. You can have dead rats floating in wine. You simply scoop them out and serve. (This is the point where the wine maker gets very uncomfortable). Wine does not generally match well with all foods due to its acidity. Garrett Oliver tells a great story of Culinary Institute chefs spraying a vinegar solution on a meat course to allow it to better match up to a wine that it is being paired with."

So you can see that I don't always make friends at these dinners

[Tapsucker]

Hmm dunno taps, I think learning about 'the nuances of' wine opened my appreciation of all food and drink including beer. Everyone should be welcome to the party.

Precisely. I wasn't suggesting that learning these things should close your mind, but the opposite. The problem is with certain people who make a career out of their 'expertise' and then get insecure and closed minded when challenged by something new. You would think appreciation would drive exploration, but some just use it to be the head of their tribe and look down on 'outsiders'.

My guess is the Wine Spectator crowd have gotten cozy in their connoisseurship and see these craft brewers as wannabe upstarts. That's where I think Oliver's irritation comes from. He would rather they enjoyed beer on it's own merits not on their preconceived ideas.

[JerCraigs]

So you can see that I don't always make friends at these dinners

[Torontoblue]

I often start beer & wine dinners where I am speaking with a discussion on the simplicity of beer as an alcoholic beverage. Barley malt, water, yeast & hops provides us with the greatest beverage on earth.

I follow up with, "It is simplicity itself. The only simpler and less sophisticated alcoholic beverage is wine (I leave out mead as I am taking a direct shot at the wine maker sitting at the table). The art of beer making is in the handling as beer is delicate and susceptible to spoilage organisms. Wine as the product of fermenting simple grape juice is hardy. You can have dead rats floating in wine. You simply scoop them out and serve. (This is the point where the wine maker gets very uncomfortable). Wine does not generally match well with all foods due to its acidity. Garrett Oliver tells a great story of Culinary Institute chefs spraying a vinegar solution on a meat course to allow it to better match up to a wine that it is being paired with."

So you can see that I don't always make friends at these dinners

I have this battle in work all the time; I work for a wine agency. Some of the cork-dorks have slowly come to accept that there is more to beer than just BMC products, and that there is indeed a complexity to beers.