CANTILLON LAMBICS

A · Post by A » Mon May 17, 2004 11:42 am

Not that I'm defending the LCBO, but if you are trying to justify that we dont need food approval just because "its been done for centuries" or you "seriously doubt there would be any danger" then you need to get some perspective.

Europeans dont allow GM foods that we have been using for decades. I guess that means they are crazy too, right?

dhurtubise · Post by **dhurtubise** » Mon May 17, 2004 8:32 pm

What I can contribute here is that Cantillon does not by any stretch of the imagination need Ontario (or want it for that matter) to sell their small beer production. So if stupid laws like this are preventing us from enjoying products from small artisanal products because the people who make laws governing food in Ontario are not worldly enough to warrant any kind of competency.... we the consumer will always lose out.

As far as the GM foods go.... that is a stupid argument. Perhaps these foods don't taste as good as what we consider "natural" strains, but I am convinced that they are not more dangerous. Consider that every strain of vegetable and fruit on your table has been genetically modified over time by careful genetic crossing.

Plus, EU countries are starting to enforce all kinds of real dumb food legislation that are seriously threatning the viability of the small artisanal breweries who's products we so fervently seek out. The general direction of the beer related standards are geared for the big macros. You WILL see the disapearance of many many small Belgian and probably English breweries because of the same stupid regulations you are now lauding.

Over regulation in ANY area of public lives is always a detriment.

Daniel

A · Post by A » Mon May 17, 2004 9:17 pm

Well, if *youre* convinced I feel so much better....

Seriously, there is a BIG difference between breeding two strains of Tomato together and breeding a Tomato and a SCORPION together...

Anyways, thats not even my point. We sit in this beer geek bubble looking at the consequences without looking at the big picture. In general, I personally dont disagree with laws that seek to improve the cleanliness of places where food is prepared, nor do I disagree with laws that seek to keep poisonous substances out of our food.

The laws might be applied heavy-handedly in these two cases, but I dont disagree with the principles.

I hope everything works out with the shipment, though.

esprit · Post by **esprit** » Tue May 18, 2004 1:35 am

To answer and respond to a number of comments....CFIA sets the standards but it is up to individual liquor board labs to enforce them. I do know that Cherry pits contain trace amounts of cyanide as do other fruit pits and the issue in this case is potassium ferrocyanide which, according the CFIA standards, should not be present in beer. Now, the people setting those standards never anticipated someone putting cherry pits in beer so it's an issue.

Bobbyok · Post by **Bobbyok** » Tue May 18, 2004 8:50 am

A wrote: Anyways, thats not even my point. We sit in this beer geek bubble looking at the consequences without looking at the big picture. In general, I personally dont disagree with laws that seek to improve the cleanliness of places where food is prepared, nor do I disagree with laws that seek to keep poisonous substances out of our food.

Beer geek bubble complaining about the release of an individual product, yes, I'll agree that's looking pretty narrow. But if you look at the big picture, you'll also see that regulations are not necessarily put in place with safety in mind. Often it's because a specific producer is able to meet a certain standard that others can't and have more lobbying power with regulators. I'm fine with standards so long as they are just and reasonable. But just because a producer can meet a standard doesn't mean it's a reasonable standard. Especially in a case like this where the regulation is so obviously put in place without full knowledge of the product being regulated.

JerCraigs · Post by **JerCraigs** » Tue May 18, 2004 1:34 pm

dhurtubise wrote: As far as the GM foods go.... that is a stupid argument. Perhaps these foods don't taste as good as what we consider "natural" strains, but I am convinced that they are not more dangerous. Consider that every strain of vegetable and fruit on your table has been genetically modified over time by careful genetic crossing.

As a pointed out there is a serious difference between genetically MODIFIED foods which is what you are describing, and genetically ENGINEERED foods where DNA etc. are being transferred across sexual compatibility barriers. anyways, thats sort of off topic.

esprit · Post by **esprit** » Mon May 24, 2004 12:15 pm

Bad news for those of you who had subscribed to our 2nd offering of the Cantillons (St. Lamvinus, Vigneronne, etc..). The brewery has not held our allocation because of all of the problems we have encountered with the LCBO in regards to the first order which, 6 months after it was delivered to the LCBO's shipping agent in Antwerp, still has not been paid for by the LCBO because of outrageous shipping delays and lab problems with these "odd" beers. Good news is that we have worked out a suitable arrangement for the future but it means we'll have to wait another 6 months or so before we'll see more Cantillon.

Wheatsheaf · Post by **Wheatsheaf** » Mon May 24, 2004 1:39 pm

That really sucks, but who can blame them?

Will future orders be limited to the Gueuze, Kriek, and R de G, or will we have another chance to order some St. Lamvinus, etc.? I'm guessing that after all the hassles Cantillon won't be eager to offer some Lou Pepes.

esprit · Post by **esprit** » Mon May 24, 2004 2:20 pm

We're hoping that we will be able to offer all of their brews, however, that will depend upon the outcome of the Canadian Food Inspection Agency ruling on the Kriek...if that goes against us then we'll never see Cantillon in Ontario again.

Andicus · Post by **Andicus** » Mon May 24, 2004 9:53 pm

Thank you, LCBO!

esprit · Post by **esprit** » Wed May 26, 2004 3:42 pm

The Rose de Gambrinus and Fou'Foune have been released by the LCBO...hoozah, hoozah...!!! Again, those of you who have ordered will be be able to get delivery shortly but if you've ordered more than 1 one of the Cantillons, we won't make arrangements until we have everything you've ordered. We hope to have the Rose at Esplanade and Smokeless by Friday or Monday latest. Fou'Foune will only be available at Smokeless initially although we hope to have it at Beerbistro along with the Rose very soon as well.

al · Post by al » Wed May 26, 2004 4:28 pm

So Gueuze, Rose de Gambrinus, Fou'Foune have been released from the clutches of the LCBO, and I who order the above mention as well as the Kriek wait. Any word as to when a desision on the Kriek will be made.

Also on Friday My wife, her brother and I stopped by the Esplande and had our first ever Cantillion Gueze. We all thought it was great, and are all looking forward to enjoying them this summer.

Peter thanks for all your efforts.

Al

Gunny · Post by **Gunny** » Wed May 26, 2004 6:03 pm

Peter:
I thought the Fou'Foune was not available. Bad apricot crop or some such?

Jeff

esprit · Post by **esprit** » Thu May 27, 2004 10:04 am

No idea when the Kriek will be OK'd....We had to cancel the larger Fou'Foune order because their production was way down due to problems with the apricot crop...we've received only a few cases and they'll be at Smokeless and perhaps one other bar in the next few days.

Cass · Post by **Cass** » Sun May 30, 2004 6:48 pm

I was at Joe's last night and they had the Gueuze, Rose and Fou'Foune.