Privatized LCBO?

PRMason · Post by **PRMason** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 6:53 pm

100% right.

Rob Creighton · Post by **Rob Creighton** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 1:07 am

Rabbit, I'ld be careful about generalizing and conspiracy theories. They may apply to Ontario government controlled operations but I don't see it in Michigan. I go into Krogers and often find a selection from every bottling micro in Michigan and not one of them has ever complained to me of slotting fees. While free market controls may not be perfect, I'll take them every time over some of the nonsense I see in Ontario.

borderline_alcoholic · Wed Nov 05, 2003 4:11 am

On 2003-11-03 12:49, rabbit wrote:
borderline, don't even think about a system where supermarkets are in the business as you'll see selection of everything go down and prices go up as they force suppliers to "buy" shelf space as they do with Coke and Pepsi and many other of their commodities.

I do not see how you can seriously hope to avoid supermarkets getting involved if you are advocating private retail licensing in a free market. If supermarkets have to allocate special licensed areas or adjacent separate premises to sell alcohol from with a 19+ age restriction, I do not see that stopping them. I would hope for a system that would also allow smaller grocery stores to sell alcohol too.

And I would point out that in a 2-tier system with the LCBO stores moving to carry a more mass market product range and specialist outlets selling wider ranges (as proposed earlier in this thread), the LCBO would be directly positioning themselves where I envisage supermarkets going within the market. As such, I do not see a need for the LCBO to continue as a retail outlet in this model at all. I would hope that competition would keep costs down and prevent consumers from being shafted as happens elsewhere in the world. Indeed, I happen to think that domestic beer is currently very expensive in Ontario when compared to the rest of the planet, though this is probably more of a taxation issue than a retail one.

But in reality, the Ontario government are unlikely to be so foolish as to simply throw away a valuable asset, so for such a marketplace to emerge, I would envisage at least a period in which the LCBO is privatized and runs as a monopoly with a much reduced range and probably higher prices until the electorate becomes so unhappy with this state of affairs that opening up the market becomes an election issue. None of which will be much fun for us.

Rubaiyat · Post by **Rubaiyat** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 11:50 am

FYI ... we (agents/suppliers) DO pay for shelf space and positioning (not EVERYTHING in the store but everything that you see placed prominently). And, generally, the LCBO DOES buy only what it wants to buy. SURE ... the selection is - generally - better than a wine and spirits section that you would find in any given supermarket in the free world -- so yes, sure, they do increase their offerings SOMEWHAT but ... IF they could, politically, get away with selling JUST the big sellers, they would. Trust me.

borderline_alcoholic · Tue Nov 11, 2003 12:36 pm

On 2003-11-11 11:50, Rubaiyat wrote:
the selection is - generally - better than a wine and spirits section that you would find in any given supermarket in the free world

I know that you state "generally", so take my comments with a pinch of salt, however...

Actually, I think that most (large) Northern European supermarkets carry a much wider selection of single malt Scotch whiskies than the LCBO's entire range comes anywhere near to.

I do not know if it is even possible to get cask-strength Southern Islay malts here or 20+ year old Lagavulin and/or Laphroaig. Certainly I have had no luck so far. If anyone happens to know where these are available from, please let me know...

Andicus · Post by **Andicus** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 12:50 pm

I do not know if it is even possible to get cask-strength Southern Islay malts here or 20+ year old Lagavulin and/or Laphroaig. Certainly I have had no luck so far. If anyone happens to know where these are available from, please let me know...

The LCBO lists a 25 year old Lagavulin, product #626754. It's not cheap at $325

, but it is available.

Andrew

borderline_alcoholic · Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:28 pm

On 2003-11-11 12:50, Andicus wrote:
The LCBO lists a 25 year old Lagavulin, product #626754. It's not cheap at $325 , but it is available.

Andrew

Thank you very much. You are right, that is not cheap, but at least it is here. There appear to be 3 bottles within central Toronto, which is probably why I have not chanced upon it.

Obviously, I should really use the LCBO website for more than just chasing the seasonal beers and Hills Absinth...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: borderline_alcoholic on 2003-11-11 13:29 ]</font>

Gunny · Post by **Gunny** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 5:43 pm

Re. Cask strength Islay's. The odd one comes up , but it's a crap shoot. Most recently, 12yo cask strength Lagavulin for 95.90/bottle.

Slainte,
Jeff

borderline_alcoholic · Tue Nov 11, 2003 6:29 pm

That is not too bad. Is that also through the LCBO? Also, I don't suppose anyone knows any of the agents for whisky imports for the LCBO? (I assume that they have a similar system in place for spirits as they do for beer.)

Gunny · Post by **Gunny** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 8:25 pm

I would speak with the owner of The Feather's Pub for information on agents and what they carry. This is just a hunch as I have never pursued this end myself, but I hesitate a guess that they have the most substantial Whisky selection in the area if not the province. Barring that, the Queen's Quay LCBO has a good selection of rare singles and from what I understand, a knowledgeable staff. Good hunting.

Slainte,
Jeff

borderline_alcoholic · Wed Nov 12, 2003 2:39 am

On 2003-11-11 20:25, Gunny wrote:
I would speak with the owner of The Feather's Pub for information on agents and what they carry.

I'll give that a try next time I am there. It probably won't be for a while (as the place is a bit out of my way) but I will let you know how I get on.

Thanks for the advice.

dhurtubise · Post by **dhurtubise** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 11:13 am

Actually, Feathers is recognized as having the 5th best selection of vinatage scotch wiskey in the world. (establishements anyways). That was a couple years ago and with his zeal for collecting these things and the little traffic that he gets I would not be surprised that he has climbed that list. #2 on the North American list behind one in NY city at that time.

Rubaiyat · Post by **Rubaiyat** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 2:28 pm

certainly not on the "general" list but check "vintages" (look at the monthly releases) and certainly check their larger more exclusive "classics" catalogue too.

for in-store, go to queens quay or, ultimately, the summerhill store probably for the best collection.

and - yes -- virtually EVERYTHING you see at the LCBO has a rep ("agent") here -- consider the LCBO our (the agents, collectively) distribution and retailing arm - that's all.

borderline_alcoholic · Thu Nov 13, 2003 4:01 pm

On 2003-11-11 17:43, Gunny wrote:
Re. Cask strength Islay's. The odd one comes up , but it's a crap shoot. Most recently, 12yo cask strength Lagavulin for 95.90/bottle.

Slainte,
Jeff

The LCBO website still lists one of these, so I rang the shop in question. Sadly it is not there and I also got confirmation that none of the 25 year olds listed actually exist either. The 16 year old Lagavulin is out of stock (as it has been for some time). So all that is available from Lagavulin (my favourite BTW) is the Distiller's edition and they don't have too many of those either, apparently.

Not good.

On 2003-11-13 14:28, Rubaiyat wrote:
certainly not on the "general" list but check "vintages" (look at the monthly releases) and certainly check their larger more exclusive "classics" catalogue too.

Thank you, I will look into this and keep a watchful eye on what is coming in, as I do for beer already.

It would obviously be too much to ask for them to put these sort of updates on their website, which is pretty much the main advantage of having a web presence in the first place. Indeed the Vintages section of the LCBO site is about as basic as it is possible to get...

and - yes -- virtually EVERYTHING you see at the LCBO has a rep ("agent") here --

Thanks for the confirmation. Now I just have to find out who the agents for Lagavulin and Laphroaig are.

consider the LCBO our (the agents, collectively) distribution and retailing arm - that's all.

I would like to think that, but from what I can see you (the agents) are far more at their disposal/mercy than they are at yours. Still, needs must when the devil drives...

Thanks for all your help in this. It is much appreciated.

Rubaiyat · Post by **Rubaiyat** » Fri Nov 14, 2003 2:56 am

Just call the LCBO Infoline at 416 365 5900 and they will tell you.

Cheers, Paul