Privatized LCBO?

joey_capps · Post by **joey_capps** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 7:37 am

Interesting report on the scrolling text banner on CBC news this morning--I think it said it was a report from the Toronto Star, but I could be wrong--that the Tories had planned to sell the LCBO if they were re-elected. With a $5.6 billion deficit, it's not beyond possibility, especially since they were counting on something like $2.2 billion in asset sales.

Personally, I'm glad this didn't happen. This move simply would have handed the monopoly to the private sector, and the only thing worse than a publically run monopoly is a private one, à la The Beer Store.

Cheers, Joe.

Cass · Post by **Cass** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 8:34 am

Here's the article:

http://www.thestar.ca/NASApp/cs/Content ... 8342212737

Not too suprising - the PC's had talked about this before. I think the Ntl. Post article posted elsewhere here said that it was one of their campaign promises during the last election (may have been the one before).

Josh Oakes · Post by **Josh Oakes** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 9:54 am

Agreed - they need to blow it up and open the market completely, or just leave it the way it is. Private sector monopolies suck, and governments have proven ineffective at regulating them (see CRTC, aka Rate Hike Rubber Stamp Department).

Mississauga Matt · Post by **Mississauga Matt** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 10:28 am

Shoulda, woulda, coulda, blah, blah, blah.

These politicians have no shame. It used to be that they made promises that they never kept. Now evidently they're talking about things they would have done if the electorate hadn't kicked their mismanaging arses out of office.

I understand that the Leafs have plans for winning the Stanley Cup ... someday. Just be patient.

Publican · Post by **Publican** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 6:59 pm

If the Ontario goverment ever privitizes the LCBO I can see no reason why there can't be
a store like Premier Gourmet somewhere in Toronto. I'd even accept beers such as Molson Labatt and the Interbrew brews to be sold in this store if that helped it stay in business. The goverment would still collect the alcohol tax without having to pay the costs such as upkeep of the Liquor stores, electricity etc

[ This Message was edited by: Publican on 2003-11-02 11:10 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Publican on 2003-11-02 11:11 ]

joey_capps · Post by **joey_capps** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 7:37 pm

If the government were to open up the market, that would be one thing. But, I would bet dollars to donuts that any attempt to privatize the LCBO would keep the monopoly and regulation in tact. It would increase the value of the asset, and it would allow for the type of "income trust" scheme mentioned in the article. The government is not only interested in the tax revenue, they want a cut of the profit.

Don't get me wrong, I'm an ardent democratic socialist, and I believe that the government should own and control certain industries (electricity, medicine, education) in the interest of the people. But government should not be in any sector to make money via profit.

Joe.

[ This Message was edited by: joey_capps on 2003-10-31 19:38 ]

bulba · Post by **bulba** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 9:13 pm

Workers of the world unite....

Mississauga Matt · Post by **Mississauga Matt** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 9:35 pm

Workers?

Why is it that the guys and gals who refer to themselves as "workers" are always the ones on strike?

PRMason · Post by **PRMason** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 11:34 am

The theory behind the LCBO is much the same as with the Lottery Corporation. The profits made by these organisations go into the governments general account to help fund government projects. It is a user fee. If you don't drink or play the lotteries, it costs you nothing. If the liquor trade was totally opened up, there would still be massive profits made by soemone. It might as well be made by and for the government for our end use.
I think a better solution is to allow a paralel system. If they would allow private specialty beer, wine and fine liquor stores to be run by private individuals along with the existing LCBO outlets, we would all be better served...as long as Loblaws et al. are not allowed to monopolise the licenses.

SirIsm · Post by **SirIsm** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 11:48 am

Correct me if I'm wrong...but isn't the alberta government making more money now from liquor than it did when it actually owned the stores?

rabbit · Post by **rabbit** » Sat Nov 01, 2003 2:11 pm

Nova Scotia, Manitoba and British Columbia all allow private stores to operate in addition to the government owned stores and I think that everyone would agree that this would be the best of both worlds...LCBO for the masses and private stores for the classes! We all know that the LCBO is not at all interested in being the specialty beer business and they only play at these seasaonal releases for political reasons. Since the days of VINTAGES the selection has been declining and will continue to decline but they can counter criticism by pretending that they're serving the consumer....hey LCBO, Premier Gourmet serves the beer consumer...you guys don't!

borderline_alcoholic · Sun Nov 02, 2003 1:23 pm

No, I don't think that is quite the best of both worlds. I think that there is something fundamentally wrong about a government regulator also running a retail outlet, moreso a monopolistic one.

I would like to see the market opened up properly. Grocery stores can neatly replace the LCBO & Beer Store end of the market, and the larger ones (Loblaws etc) can put some serious pressure on Molson and Interbroue to reduce prices for bulk purchasing. I would expect to see a limited selection of micros and imports in some grocery stores too.

Then there would (hopefully) be specialist shops and importers offering a wider range of beers to cater for our market and we can all be happy too.

Of course the above is unlikely to happen. Whether we like it or not, the government have created an asset in the LCBO which they are unlikely to simply throw away when they can just sell it as a monopoly with a much larger price tag. This would likely, if anything, lead to a reduction in the range of beers available. And a Molson-Interbroue cartel would almost certainly be an interested party if the LCBO did go up for sale. In the event of them controlling both the province-wide retail outlets for beer, I think that the writing would be on the wall for the Ontario beer selection.

Anyway, that's probably enough of my idle speculation for now...

[ This Message was edited by: borderline_alcoholic on 2003-11-02 19:00 ]

JerCraigs · Post by **JerCraigs** » Sun Nov 02, 2003 7:40 pm

Privatization would more than likely lead to crappier selection in most areas other than the GTA. Also, the fact that The Beer Store does a good job of storing beer (ie. cold storage) is often overlooked.

That said, having at least *one* store in downtown Toronto that could sell whatever it felt like would be awesome.

PRMason · Post by **PRMason** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 11:06 am

The Beer Store does do a good job of storing beer when its ready for sale. Most stores receive 2-3 28 pallet loads of beer per week. Since most of that beer will not fit into the "carton box" (beer store-ese for fridge) it is stored in the warehouse section of the store along with the empties. Needless to say, this area is not refrigerated or even air conditioned, so much of the beer is kept at ambient temperatures that can get kinda mild in the summer. The image of cold beer from brewery to consumer is a bit of a falacy.

rabbit · Post by **rabbit** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 12:49 pm

borderline, don't even think about a system where supermarkets are in the business as you'll see selection of everything go down and prices go up as they force suppliers to "buy" shelf space as they do with Coke and Pepsi and many other of their commodities. Notwithstanding every criticism of the LCBO, they are still forced to carry a lot of stuff that an independent retailer would not. Supermarkets would stock only big sellers and the seletion would be small. At least in our current system almost every major urban neighbourhood will have an LCBO superstore with what is a great selection compared to almost anywhere else in the world. What we need are a handful of independent stores operating in major centres who can bring in the wines, beers and spirits that the LCBO does not want to carry. The government could still extract their pound of flesh and most criticisms of the LCBO would cease immediately. By the way, it's INTERBREW as you're confusing the spelling with UNIBROUE.