"major initiative" to boost ontario craft beer....

MatttthewGeorge · Post by **MatttthewGeorge** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:41 pm

Well said Rob, I fully agree!

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:51 pm

OK, firstly that was a wonderful post. I agree with all of it.

But I'm pretty sure that by actually saying North York, you are taking a pot shot.

zane9 · Post by **zane9** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:55 pm

Rob Creighton wrote:...If we (the royal "we") had 1 store in every major urban area that focused on craft, and all other C-stores sold BMC, we would still be so busy that we would never keep up. The number of manufacturing licences for beer is now over 100 and at least 40 more are about to open. The LCBO has already told us that they no longer have room on their shelves for all of the craft products and have turned us down for a number of releases...

I plan to quote you on this!

saints_gambit · Post by **saints_gambit** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:23 am

zane9 wrote:
Rob Creighton wrote:...If we (the royal "we") had 1 store in every major urban area that focused on craft, and all other C-stores sold BMC, we would still be so busy that we would never keep up. The number of manufacturing licences for beer is now over 100 and at least 40 more are about to open. The LCBO has already told us that they no longer have room on their shelves for all of the craft products and have turned us down for a number of releases...
I plan to quote you on this!

There's nothing inflammatory about it. They simply don't have the shelf space to be able to stock everything. They haven't for months. This is why single units are popular now and six packs are dying.

instantkamera · Post by **instantkamera** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:12 am

Rob Creighton wrote:The OCB head (John Hay) has already provided a dismissal of this effort which I assume means he is speaking for us though it is certainly not GRB.

I'm not sure what great fear this sparks in the heart of the average Ontarian but it strikes me as pathetic and cowardly. (Not something Canadians are renowned for)

We are a small beer producer looking to sell beer to a growing, interested population where even our town (which was not a craft beer market) is showing both support and pride in our work.

A trip into Buffalo, Syracuse or Niagara Falls shows me C-stores, large chains and liquor retailers where craft is thriving! The local Buffalo ball field has the craft beer corner where great beer is not only available but reasonably priced and the food was superior to anything in the sleazy, corporate monstrosity across from Steamwhistle.

What prevents the average Ontario resident from maturing into a normal, reasonably calm citizen of 2013? Fear of crazed craft beer drinking zombies aimlessly wondering the streets, smoking cannibus outside C-stores? Really? (This is not taking a shot at anybody from North York where this is common).

If we (the royal "we") had 1 store in every major urban area that focused on craft, and all other C-stores sold BMC, we would still be so busy that we would never keep up. The number of manufacturing licences for beer is now over 100 and at least 40 more are about to open. The LCBO has already told us that they no longer have room on their shelves for all of the craft products and have turned us down for a number of releases.

I'm not sure what the business model is for a number of new start-ups but we will not sit by and get steamrolled (Freudian?) into oblivion because we didn't "get permission" to sell beer in a government controlled autobot warehouse. It is the right time for change. The C-stores are only one option but we do not object to them. Screw the naysayers.

For those not in the industry, the predicted upcoming merger/buyout of ABInbev and SABMillerMolsonCoors has been announced with a pricetag of $100 billion. I love it. Bring on the evil empire and sharpen my light saber. Never tell me the odds!

Heard you on CBC Radio 1 this morning, good job!

cratez · Post by **cratez** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:10 am

Rob Creighton wrote: The OCB head (John Hay) has already provided a dismissal of this effort which I assume means he is speaking for us though it is certainly not GRB.

I'm not sure what great fear this sparks in the heart of the average Ontarian but it strikes me as pathetic and cowardly. (Not something Canadians are renowned for)

We are a small beer producer looking to sell beer to a growing, interested population where even our town (which was not a craft beer market) is showing both support and pride in our work.

A trip into Buffalo, Syracuse or Niagara Falls shows me C-stores, large chains and liquor retailers where craft is thriving! The local Buffalo ball field has the craft beer corner where great beer is not only available but reasonably priced and the food was superior to anything in the sleazy, corporate monstrosity across from Steamwhistle.

What prevents the average Ontario resident from maturing into a normal, reasonably calm citizen of 2013? Fear of crazed craft beer drinking zombies aimlessly wondering the streets, smoking cannibus outside C-stores? Really? (This is not taking a shot at anybody from North York where this is common).

If we (the royal "we") had 1 store in every major urban area that focused on craft, and all other C-stores sold BMC, we would still be so busy that we would never keep up. The number of manufacturing licences for beer is now over 100 and at least 40 more are about to open. The LCBO has already told us that they no longer have room on their shelves for all of the craft products and have turned us down for a number of releases.

I'm not sure what the business model is for a number of new start-ups but we will not sit by and get steamrolled (Freudian?) into oblivion because we didn't "get permission" to sell beer in a government controlled autobot warehouse. It is the right time for change. The C-stores are only one option but we do not object to them. Screw the naysayers.

Amen, Rob!

nickw · Post by **nickw** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:14 am

Cass wrote:
Kel Varnsen wrote:
Cass wrote:While it's commendable for the convenience store association to try to get the craft brewers on board, with the OCB so deeply embedded into the LCBO I would suspect they'll never publicly support it.
On the other hand, there are a ton of Ontario breweries that aren't OCB members.
Yeah, but the OCB holds weight with the media. If Indie Alehouse and Bellwoods came out to support convenience stores (not that I suspect they would), it wouldn't have the same impact.

seems Indie's in favour of the convenience store model

@indiealehouse
Beer and wine in corner stores in BC - Not in Ontario. Because the big brewers control this town and our politicians are their Bit$*&s.

zane9 · Post by **zane9** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:48 am

saints_gambit wrote:
zane9 wrote:
Rob Creighton wrote:...If we (the royal "we") had 1 store in every major urban area that focused on craft, and all other C-stores sold BMC, we would still be so busy that we would never keep up. The number of manufacturing licences for beer is now over 100 and at least 40 more are about to open. The LCBO has already told us that they no longer have room on their shelves for all of the craft products and have turned us down for a number of releases...
I plan to quote you on this!
There's nothing inflammatory about it. They simply don't have the shelf space to be able to stock everything. They haven't for months. This is why single units are popular now and six packs are dying.

Of course it's not inflammatory! It's a succinct sum-up of a problem. If the LCBO had a distribution model in which craft beer truly local to the local market was favored over shipped-in beer, the local breweries might find that there is more shelf space for their releases.

Cass · Post by **Cass** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:43 pm

Article from the Star, with a bit more from John Hay.

http://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/ ... tores.html

As mentioned a bit already, I think a huge issue here is *where* all these new breweries are going to sell. There's only so many tap lines, the competition is fierce and there's not enough new ones to cover off everyone. Nobody wants to go to TBS and the LCBO is out of shelf space.

Indie & Bellwoods have what is likely the smartest model right now (for the right situation) - self-reliant tap lines & retail.

Bytowner · Post by **Bytowner** » Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:01 pm

Cass wrote:Indie & Bellwoods have what is likely the smartest model right now (for the right situation) - self-reliant tap lines & retail.

This seems to be the way things are going with Ottawa breweries as well. Centrally located with serious walk-up growler traffic (BtP, Broadhead, Kichessipi). I like it personally.

It was exciting when you could go to a new place and have new beer. I feel like we've moved too far away from that. This move back to local brewers providing beer to a certain neighbourhood is refreshing.

saints_gambit · Post by **saints_gambit** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:32 am

Bytowner wrote:
Cass wrote:Indie & Bellwoods have what is likely the smartest model right now (for the right situation) - self-reliant tap lines & retail.
This seems to be the way things are going with Ottawa breweries as well. Centrally located with serious walk-up growler traffic (BtP, Broadhead, Kichessipi). I like it personally.

It was exciting when you could go to a new place and have new beer. I feel like we've moved too far away from that. This move back to local brewers providing beer to a certain neighbourhood is refreshing.

To be fair, that seems to be happening organically. I'm writing a book at the moment about brewing history in Ontario. If you lay the map of current breweries over brewery sites from 1869, there's not a lot between them. I think Ontario was designed to be served locally.

Kel Varnsen · Post by **Kel Varnsen** » Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:30 am

Bytowner wrote: This seems to be the way things are going with Ottawa breweries as well. Centrally located with serious walk-up growler traffic (BtP, Broadhead, Kichessipi). I like it personally.

It was exciting when you could go to a new place and have new beer. I feel like we've moved too far away from that. This move back to local brewers providing beer to a certain neighbourhood is refreshing.

I like it too, but from what I have seen, it seems like it would be a hard way to make it. I mean I don't know all the details about how the business works but from BTP's point of view it would seem like your production costs would be higher (rent is higher per square foot than if you were in an industrial park, and ingredients would be higher since you can't buy as large of quantities). But you pretty much have to sell your product at close the same price as your competitors (especially for draft accounts) otherwise you can't compete. Plus with such a small set up, you can't relly afford to have tanks empty so you are working all the time.

As far as the corner store thing goes, maybe I am just getting old and jaded but part of me just doesn't really care what happens. Sure it would be nice, but I don't expect it to happen any time soon. Plus if it doesn't I live in Ottawa, between what is available at the LCBO/Beer Store, Local breweries, Quebec stuff in Gatineau and then US stuff in NY State (less than an hour away), I have access to more good beer than I could possibly ever try. On top of that I homebrew so I can try to make even more stuff that wouldn't be available to me in stores.

Lecocq · Post by **Lecocq** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:39 pm

Guys, maybe venture into a TBS once in awhile, there is good beer available amongst all the "usual suspects". My local, self serve TBS has all the St Ambroise, Crazy Canuck, Muskoka, Unibroue, Flying Monkeys, etc. and is always in stock. Not so easy to find that stuff in the old conventional stores, but if you`re lucky enough to have a newer store, give it a shot!

instantkamera · Post by **instantkamera** » Mon Nov 04, 2013 7:46 am

[troll="Lecocq"]
Guys, maybe venture into a TBS once in awhile, there is good beer available amongst all the "usual suspects". My local, self serve TBS has all the St Ambroise, Crazy Canuck, Muskoka, Unibroue, Flying Monkeys, etc. and is always in stock. Not so easy to find that stuff in the old conventional stores, but if you`re lucky enough to have a newer store, give it a shot!
[/troll]

Nice try...

saints_gambit · Post by **saints_gambit** » Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:51 pm

Actually, now that I think about it, being unable to access the LCBO as a sales avenue because there are too many breweries more or less guarantees that you have to do business with the beer store making it defacto monopoly.

There's probably a significantly talking point in there somewhere, especially if the current ownership shares change like I think they're going to to give AB InBev a controlling interest.