Mediocre Beer

[cratez]

Just reading through the latest comments and realizing that there hasn't been this much healthy, substantive debate on here in a while. It's always good to take stock of where our beer scene is at and try to envision what could be done better. Hopefully some of our brewers read these comments and take them to heart (both the positive and the negative). Kudos to Chris for starting the thread.

[markaberrant]

Just reading through the latest comments and realizing that there hasn't been this much healthy, substantive debate on here in a while. It's always good to take stock of where our beer scene is at and try to envision what could be done better. Hopefully some of our brewers read these comments and take them to heart (both the positive and the negative). Kudos to Chris for starting the thread.

One thing I have noticed is that breweries are mostly absent from discussion on Bar Towel. Don't get me wrong, I get that they are too busy making beer, but with an established Ontario-centric beer discussion forum, you would think that more of them would want to have a presence on here.

[Craig]

Just reading through the latest comments and realizing that there hasn't been this much healthy, substantive debate on here in a while. It's always good to take stock of where our beer scene is at and try to envision what could be done better. Hopefully some of our brewers read these comments and take them to heart (both the positive and the negative). Kudos to Chris for starting the thread.

One thing I have noticed is that breweries are mostly absent from discussion on Bar Towel. Don't get me wrong, I get that they are too busy making beer, but with an established Ontario-centric beer discussion forum, you would think that more of them would want to have a presence on here.

It's tough for producers to be active on forums like this. It can easily lead to conflict when people start slagging their beers or perceptions of marketing start to pop up.

[cratez]

One thing I have noticed is that breweries are mostly absent from discussion on Bar Towel. Don't get me wrong, I get that they are too busy making beer, but with an established Ontario-centric beer discussion forum, you would think that more of them would want to have a presence on here.

Not many of them post and I'm not sure how many – if any – lurk on here. But I do know that if I owned a brewery in this province I'd be using the feedback on this forum and the rating sites to at least *partially* inform product development, marketing, etc. I've read a couple times about Southern Tier dropping their lowest-rated beers – first with their original core lineup, then with individual beers like the Cherry Saison – and using consumer input to tweak their lineup (though I'm not suggesting that all or most brewers should have an "extreme" focus like ST). Like you implied, Bar Towel is a valuable and somewhat rare resource that brewers have at their disposal.

[liamt07]

Just reading through the latest comments and realizing that there hasn't been this much healthy, substantive debate on here in a while. It's always good to take stock of where our beer scene is at and try to envision what could be done better. Hopefully some of our brewers read these comments and take them to heart (both the positive and the negative). Kudos to Chris for starting the thread.

One thing I have noticed is that breweries are mostly absent from discussion on Bar Towel. Don't get me wrong, I get that they are too busy making beer, but with an established Ontario-centric beer discussion forum, you would think that more of them would want to have a presence on here.

It's tough for producers to be active on forums like this. It can easily lead to conflict when people start slagging their beers or perceptions of marketing start to pop up.

Why wouldn't someone who represents and believes in a brand not want to defend it if it were under fire? I think the lack of brewer/brewery presence on this site (not just this one, I'm talking about social media in general) is part of the problem with the industry. Constructive brewer-consumer banter is essential if we want to strengthen our community.

[liamt07]

but many of our breweries seem have skipped a step and have gone straight to the brett, the barrel aging, and the fancy packaging in a 750 ml format with a 14 dollar price tag without ensuring their base beers are ready for such treatments.

Hit the nail right on the head.

I (and I know I'm not alone here) would rather have a sensational IPA/porter than some half-assed, muddled, janky brett + chardonnay barrel + yuzu & dragonfruit saison dry hopped with motueka and riwaka.

This sounds like it could be a really good beer. I may actually make this.

Be sure to send a bottle my way when it's done.

[Craig]

One thing I have noticed is that breweries are mostly absent from discussion on Bar Towel. Don't get me wrong, I get that they are too busy making beer, but with an established Ontario-centric beer discussion forum, you would think that more of them would want to have a presence on here.

It's tough for producers to be active on forums like this. It can easily lead to conflict when people start slagging their beers or perceptions of marketing start to pop up.

Why wouldn't someone who represents and believes in a brand not want to defend it if it were under fire? I think the lack of brewer/brewery presence on this site (not just this one, I'm talking about social media in general) is part of the problem with the industry. Constructive brewer-consumer banter is essential if we want to strengthen our community.

They would want to, but they get in trouble when things escalate, which they invariably do.

I've seen this in other industries. Healthy forums usually end up with either a bunch of industry guys posting but the general rule is nobody critiques the products of people who post or no industry guys posting (officially) and free reign to trash any beer you like. The transition from one to the other is usually messy.

I'm with you that feedback is essential and if I were a brewer I would definitely lurk places like this to get it when I could. I'm sure that's part of the reason they take things to festivals and the like too. In person interaction is nice because you get the feedback but you can keep it quiet in a sense if the interaction goes sour. But openly posting has risks associated with it, is all.

[J343MY]

Hit the nail right on the head.

I (and I know I'm not alone here) would rather have a sensational IPA/porter than some half-assed, muddled, janky brett + chardonnay barrel + yuzu & dragonfruit saison dry hopped with motueka and riwaka.

This sounds like it could be a really good beer. I may actually make this.

Be sure to send a bottle my way when it's done.

No problem.

[atomeyes]

Just reading through the latest comments and realizing that there hasn't been this much healthy, substantive debate on here in a while. It's always good to take stock of where our beer scene is at and try to envision what could be done better. Hopefully some of our brewers read these comments and take them to heart (both the positive and the negative). Kudos to Chris for starting the thread.

One thing I have noticed is that breweries are mostly absent from discussion on Bar Towel. Don't get me wrong, I get that they are too busy making beer, but with an established Ontario-centric beer discussion forum, you would think that more of them would want to have a presence on here.

if you think for 1 second that Ontario brewers/breweries don't read BT, you are fooling yourself. i know for a fact that they read BT and look for our feedback/comments.

they're here. the only one to post is Lackey, and it is rare.

i actually think they should not be posting here. why get into pissing matches justify your beer, prices, labels, etc? Best to let the purchasing power of the consumer tell you about your beer.

[matt7215]

Just reading through the latest comments and realizing that there hasn't been this much healthy, substantive debate on here in a while. It's always good to take stock of where our beer scene is at and try to envision what could be done better. Hopefully some of our brewers read these comments and take them to heart (both the positive and the negative). Kudos to Chris for starting the thread.

One thing I have noticed is that breweries are mostly absent from discussion on Bar Towel. Don't get me wrong, I get that they are too busy making beer, but with an established Ontario-centric beer discussion forum, you would think that more of them would want to have a presence on here.

if you think for 1 second that Ontario brewers/breweries don't read BT, you are fooling yourself. i know for a fact that they read BT and look for our feedback/comments.

they're here. the only one to post is Lackey, and it is rare.

i actually think they should not be posting here. why get into pissing matches justify your beer, prices, labels, etc? Best to let the purchasing power of the consumer tell you about your beer.

Rob from Grand River posts here as well

[lister]

they're here. the only one to post is Lackey, and it is rare.

Michael Hancock of Denison's has historically posted here. Granted he's probably been a little busy recently...

[Belgian]

Some really great innovators like Mikkeller are 'gypsy' brewers. His Beer Geek Brunch 'Weasel' is - literally - the cat's ass. The motivation for renting & not owning the bricks-and-mortar facilty can be a very correct reason, like creative freedom with less financial pressure to compromise.

Sure, and I have also dumped a ton of Mikkeller beers down the drain because they are awful. To the point that i will no longer buy any of his product.

True some are, but yours is not an across-the-board dismissal of contract brewing, rather we can say Mikkel's greatest brews show what is positive and valid in using a contracted facility for brewing. His good ones are just really good far as I know.

I do wonder why some of his brews are so random, probably exactly the same reason some are brilliant - because he'll try anything.

[Belgian]

Re: brewer participation - I'm not surprised they might cringe a brow to post on a thread titled "mediocre beer" not to say post amongst the very blunt and vehemently opinionated content hereon - truly we're not the most diplomatic or tactful bunch here in expressing ourselves while still leaving SOME room for the breweries to elbow up among us as fellow enthusiasts and feel comfortable.

But I guess that's the free-willed nature of an internet forum group like BarTowel - if there were a police state-like restriction against anyone criticizing companies, or of mentioning specific negative topics, we'd all be mired in a lot of doublespeak and tip-toeing hypocrisy that doesn't serve any clarity around what we're talking about.

So it's really up to us ('you') to not appear so brash, impatient and hostile as to scare away brewery participation. We can still say pretty much what we want to without as much tarring-and-feathering. Eg. 'Ontario brewery X beers are known to go sour and become bottle volcanoes', that's good information to know and share, and hopefully if the brewer is smart they will jump on the feedback or even ask for productive discussion. Cheers.

[Mike-KBCo]

Just reading through the latest comments and realizing that there hasn't been this much healthy, substantive debate on here in a while. It's always good to take stock of where our beer scene is at and try to envision what could be done better. Hopefully some of our brewers read these comments and take them to heart (both the positive and the negative). Kudos to Chris for starting the thread.

One thing I have noticed is that breweries are mostly absent from discussion on Bar Towel. Don't get me wrong, I get that they are too busy making beer, but with an established Ontario-centric beer discussion forum, you would think that more of them would want to have a presence on here.

It's tough for producers to be active on forums like this. It can easily lead to conflict when people start slagging their beers or perceptions of marketing start to pop up.

This has been a really interesting discussion. As a contract-brewer in the process of building our own space, it's extremely relevant to what we're all about. Truth be told, I browse Bar Towel every single day. Do I feel the need to engage on a regular basis? Well, obviously not. For me it's a way to stay on top of trends and understand what's happening in our community. First and foremost I'm a beer enthusiast, so this "job" I have is really just a continuation of my hobby and passion. I'm a pretty lucky guy.

Further to that, it's challenging to participate in a way that's not overly self promotional. At the KBCo we've got a policy of talking to people, not just talking AT people. Our social profiles are really casual in tone and are really just supposed to be a reflection of the people behind the cell phone/laptop etc.

Whether I like it or not, everything in the public domain becomes political. I think our policy with regards to use of language/type of conversations we engage in are pretty liberal. However, sometimes it's just best to stand by the sidelines and watch the fireworks rather than diving in with a pack of matches.

Glad to talk frankly about our experience contract brewing, etc. if anyone is interested. We've been 100% transparent about this from day one. Hell, if you have any questions whatsoever and feel like hearing an "industry guy perspective" let me know.

[chris_schryer]

Been away all day and this thread keeps growing. And I agree, good healthy discussion covering a few different aspects of the current scene.

Mark, regarding using aggregate sites as a purchasing guide, I've already said twice, that I think that's just fine. But I have a serious problem with you calling out three breweries by name, two of which you've never had, based on descriptions you've read. You can think that's okay, but I sure don't. "I read it on the internet" is never a good defense.

In terms of brewers posting, Mark and Mandie Murphy are around a bit too. But I agree, brewers would be in a weird spot here. Particularly the ones who think that there are some breweries making stellar barrel-aged beers in Ontario