Mediocre Beer

[chris_schryer]

Hey all,
I just posted an article on something that has been bugging me recently. Namely, that with the explosive growth of brewing in Ontario, the overall median in terms of quality is dropping, and that's a bad thing. I'm not looking for people to call out specific brewers, but I'm interested if a) other people have noticed (I assume you have) and b) if you've ever leveled with a brewer/brewery rep about a beer, whether at a bar, or fest or wherever. How did it go?

Oh, and here's the article, it's long:
http://www.torontobeerblog.com/rant/wells-ambition/

[Belgian]

A - Yes. Hoping that 'the tide raises all boats' with respect to middling, mysteriously-popular brews paving the way for people's prospective palatal progress & growing support of the other, really really good stuff people can put out there.

I mean our province did also have to grow up in our taste for wine, so there's a learning curve that rewards people who've tired of Yellow Tail Shiraz-level product. It's fairly democratic and so maybe not a cause for panic, Chris unless you think the brew pub taps are going to be crowded with 'fifty shades of not-so-great' and pub owners will be overly enamoured with the under-achievers?

[Craig]

I'd need some examples of new breweries we're talking about here. Most of the breweries I still think of as new, Sawdust City, Collective Arts, Left Field, Double Trouble, Oast House, Indie and Bellwoods just off the top of my head, I think have probably brought up the median quality of beers. There also seems to be a bit of an explosion of newer what I'm going to call regional breweries that exist in smaller towns throughout Ontario, but I really haven't tried many of them.

[TheSevenDuffs]

Chris,

That was an excellent article.

I agree with your article, but I think it is slightly misdirected. I agree completely with your main point that the Ontario craft beer scene has been diluted during this recent "boom". That being said, I don't think that contract breweries are exclusively the problem. In fact, as we've seen with Left Field (although soon they will cease to be a contract brewery) contract brewing can work very well.

The problem is a general one, whether we are talking about a contract breweries, a full on brewery or a brew pub: there is a general lack of quality. If I consider all of the breweries/brands that have opened up for business in 2012 or 2013, very few stand out as making even above average beer. Furthermore, perhaps the biggest problem is that many of the breweries that have been around for much longer than that, seem content to continue making the same old average to below average beer. There is no growth or experimentation for the most part. That's why seeing the likes of Bellwoods, Indie Ale House and Beyond The Pale is such a breath of fresh air.

I'm not sure what the problem is and how it will fix itself (if it will), but your thesis is a good one. People are trying to capitalize on the relatively undeveloped craft beer scene in Ontario as a business venture without the adequate brewing talent to go with it. From what I have seen/heard, there are some very talented home brewers on BT that would be a major asset to some of these start ups. We have talent in the province, it just (sadly) doesn't seem to be in the hands of those opening up shop.

Like you, I am not going to call anyone out. I have mentioned a few in positive light, and I think that's fine to do.

Again, thanks for writing that article. I think it needed to be said.

[groulxsome]

An interesting idea, but it's also interesting to note that there is a distinct style in this lower beer quality median. There sure are a lot of average "X Pale Ale" and "Y Z IPA" (where Z can be "session" "American" "British" "tasty" red" "dry hopped") saturating the market, and I guess that's kinda lame, but there is still a major lack of other styles, average or not. But there are other styles that still have very few local options...

Ontario Contract Brewery Business Plan #1. Google "Black Butte Porter Clone." Contract brew with little effort. Put in LCBO in cans.

Ontario Contract Brewery Business Plan #2. Google "Affligem Blond Clone." Contract brew with little effort. Put in LCBO in cans.

Even if either of those were mediocre, at least they'd be options for when you want something to compare an import or a homebrew against. Mediocre can be nice baselines for letting excellence shine. I'd be nice to occasionally have a range of mediocre beers instead of more people brewing average "hoppy amber ale." Though, then again, maybe it's easier to make mediocre with pale ales.

[JeffPorter]

Hey Chris,

Was going to respond to this on FB, but glad you posted here.

The other thing I wonder about isn't just homebrewers cum pros, but all these new breweries who are getting, well, Paul Dickey to brew...

I love his beers, and his porter and mild (under the Cheshire brand) are some of the best in the province. But I wonder how sustainable is that. Plus, while I like these ESB-type ales, and red IPAs he's doing, it'd be cool if he could just focus on the Cheshire stuff, and get that out to the LC.

But then what would happen to the Double Trouble and Arch Brewings of the world?

[liamt07]

The problem also lies in the market. Too many people out there don't know how good/bad some of the beer they're drinking is. Blame it on the Ontario market, but people need to get out to tastings, travel a bit, trade a bit and experience something beyond what the LCBO offers with every "release."

Having talked to others, we've agreed that they're too many people in the "scene" (and on this and other forum sites as well) that find too many merits in fantastically mediocre beers. Not enough people are willing to tell a brewer or write about a beer (on X blog) and call it out for what it is: AVERAGE. This isn't to say that there isn't some great beer in Ontario, there's just too much AVERAGE beer that receives praise far beyond what it deserves. I think this stems from a lack of exposure as to what really good beer tastes like. Just because something looks good/sounds good/is marketed well/the rep or brewer is a real swell guy doesn't make the quality of the beer any better.

TL;DR people in the scene need to be more critical of what's being brewed/consumed in this province.

In the words of the immortal Harvey Keitel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu1JMbSLPvc

[BlackRedGold]

Is this really an Ontario thing though? Quebec has a lot more really good brewers but they still have a ton of mediocre microbrew sitting on shelves. I suspect the same thing is prevalent in the US.

Most people start out drinking macro swill. That's what their parents drank and it's cheaper which is a big consideration for someone who just hit the legal drinking age. Going to anything micro is probably going to seem great in comparison. And once they think it is great, that becomes their beer and they just stick with it. Until they come across something even better and most people don't regularly go out looking to try something new.

[J343MY]

Having talked to others, we've agreed that they're too many people in the "scene" (and on this and other forum sites as well) that find too many merits in fantastically mediocre beers. Not enough people are willing to tell a brewer or write about a beer (on X blog) and call it out for what it is: AVERAGE. This isn't to say that there isn't some great beer in Ontario, there's just too much AVERAGE beer that receives praise far beyond what it deserves. I think this stems from a lack of exposure as to what really good beer tastes like. Just because something looks good/sounds good/is marketed well/the rep or brewer is a real swell guy doesn't make the quality of the beer any better.

TL;DR people in the scene need to be more critical of what's being brewed/consumed in this province.

I agree with most of this, but I disagree that is comes from lack of exposure to really good beer. I think that most people in the "scene" are just too nice and don't want to be too critical of others work.

As a homebrewer I have shared my beers with a lot of Toronto area pro brewers and it can be quite difficult to get them say any negative things about them. I have literally said "tear my beer apart, tell me every bad thing about it" and nobody really wants to do that. At least in front of me.

A funny story, actually one that ties into this thread quite well. A few years ago when Chris did his homebrew competition with the Edge, I was sitting beside the judging table when they were doing the final round. Sam from Sawdust City was one of the judges. When it got to my beer, It wasn't his favourite and he had some criticisms. He didn't know I was sitting there listing though. After the competition was over, I said to him that it seemed like he didn't liked my beer very much and I asked him what he would change. He basically just apologized profusely to me and didn't really want to talk about what he didn't like, despite me telling him that is exactly what I wanted to hear.

So maybe we are all just too Canadian and we'd rather be polite and say nice things.

[markaberrant]

Keep advocating great, local, fresh beer. There is no need for negativity in a local scene. The good honest breweries and the good honest beers always rise to the top. The pretenders ultimately fall by the wayside.

I do agree that in a young and growing scene, it can be difficult to tell the difference between sh!t and shinola. Again, it means a lot of work needs to be done, but those willing to put it all on the line and give it their all will eventually reap the rewards. At least that is what I keep telling myself as I prepare to enter the market later this year....

[matt7215]

Is this really an Ontario thing though? Quebec has a lot more really good brewers but they still have a ton of mediocre microbrew sitting on shelves. I suspect the same thing is prevalent in the US.

I agree. There is a ton of stuff in other craft beer markets that ranges from mediocre to poor. It's not just an Ontario problem. What Ontario doesn't have is a brewery that continually produces excellent beers in a wide range of styles.

We really don't have excellence in anything except for pale ales. We do get some quality limited releases but even brewers that are capable of excellence have put out some pricey products that haven't even approached mediocre.

The amount of quality beer in this province is at an all time high but there us lots of room at the top.

I believe that the best brewery in this province isn't open yet.

[iguenard]

Is this really an Ontario thing though? Quebec has a lot more really good brewers but they still have a ton of mediocre microbrew sitting on shelves. I suspect the same thing is prevalent in the US.

I believe that the best brewery in this province isn't open yet.

I can safely say, two and a half years before its opening that their Double IPA in three years from now will not be half as hoppy as what it will be in two and a half years from now, and that they must will change their recipes on their flagship beer because they will have had issues sourcing hops due to the 2016 hop apocalypse.

If only they would have will been half as good as Bellwoods will have been before it will close.

Fuck I am drunk. But so right. Cheers to mediocre beer... its half as bad as next year's mediocre beer, but at least its there to make the average ones shine!

[boney]

Is this really an Ontario thing though? Quebec has a lot more really good brewers but they still have a ton of mediocre microbrew sitting on shelves. I suspect the same thing is prevalent in the US.

I believe that the best brewery in this province isn't open yet.

I can safely say, two and a half years before its opening that their Double IPA in three years from now will not be half as hoppy as what it will be in two and a half years from now, and that they must will change their recipes on their flagship beer because they will have had issues sourcing hops due to the 2016 hop apocalypse.

If only they would have will been half as good as Bellwoods will have been before it will close.

Fuck I am drunk. But so right. Cheers to mediocre beer... its half as bad as next year's mediocre beer, but at least its there to make the average ones shine!

This. Is. Awesome! Easily my favorite post in a loooong time. Am I seeing into the future or travelling back through time???? I love it.

[JerCraigs]

This is a problem when there are some truly great, even epic, beers being made in Ontario right now. Canuck Pale Ale is amazing... If big hops aren’t your thing Black Oak Nut Brown is divine, Muskoka Cream Ale is spectacular and Left Field Eephus is dynamite. And now I’m running low on positive adjectives... I’ve heard people discussing “awesome” beers they’ve recently had, and they have listed some truly mediocre (or worse) beers along with some stellar ones.

You haven't listed the beers you think are mediocre so it's hard to say whether or not I agree with you. I like the Crazy Canuck very much but wouldn't call it amazing. GLB has done a number of hoppy brews that I consider superior to it, many of which are not available 24/7 unfortunately. But is that an objective ranking or just a difference in our tastes?

Similarly I am quite fond of both Black Oak Nut Brown and Left Field Eephus. In fact I would argue that they are likely amongst the locally made brews that can unquestionably stand up against any international competition, but for me personally it is rare that I am in the mood to reach for a brown ale.


I would argue that on a whole, the overall quality of beer in Ontario has risen - though perhaps it depends what and when you are comparing it to - but that in terms of volume the "average" stuff is definitely growing faster than the "best of the best". I do not think that this is any different than most other regions. Distribution may be more of an issue here than in some places though.

[jaymack]

Enjoyed the article Chris. Thanks for posting.

Is it possible that as our selection and variety of beer increases we only naturally become more discerning of the taste of what we are buying?

If I ask "where do you want to go for a burger" as opposed to asking "where do you want to go for dinner" how you decide will change in what you favor.

I would still prefer to support a local guy making a so-so ale as opposed to buying macro but I think I will still judge the next new beer I try against the last one I know.

Cheers