Does craft beer have a quality problem?

[Tapsucker]

I'm looking forward to the day we drop the 'Craft' moniker and just judge beers on their quality. It was a handy term to get the culture going, but it has outgrown it's usefulness IMHO.

For now, the only real use I have for the term craft beer is when I travel and I need a description to use when seeking out a decent bar with decent beer.

[Kel Varnsen]

I'm looking forward to the day we drop the 'Craft' moniker and just judge beers on their quality. It was a handy term to get the culture going, but it has outgrown it's usefulness IMHO.

For now, the only real use I have for the term craft beer is when I travel and I need a description to use when seeking out a decent bar with decent beer.

I would be down with that. Hell I would be happy to go back to the micro label. To me the craft label is just meaningless, since it tells me nothing about if a beer is good or not. Although some groups seem to want to make you think that. But the fact is, if given the choice I would probably drink something from Granville Island or Creemore than something from Trafalgar. Hell there are a lot of beers from good "craft breweries" that I would choose GI or Creemore beers over.

[Tapsucker]

But the fact is, if given the choice I would probably drink something from Granville Island or Creemore than something from Trafalgar. Hell there are a lot of beers from good "craft breweries" that I would choose GI or Creemore beers over.

Me two. When you look at how Creemore has scaled, you see the only thing keeping the big boys from brewing an outstanding beer and storming this market is their own dumb MBAs. They have the technology, know how and brewmasters. They just happen to have their heads so far up their branding asses that when challenged by micro brewers, their answer to protecting market share is to put lime in something, or try and create a fake micro brand without actually developing a decent recipe. Even efforts like 'Sick' Pints, that have turned out a few decent brews are trapped in a mentality of being a trophy brand or division v.s. a prototyping lab for future core beers.

Could you imagine how big a deal it would be if they turned Blue into a world class pilsner? Made Keiths a knockout traditional IPA? Probably the only example that comes to mind of a well executed beer that has been mainstream from the start is Blue Moon/Ricard's White. I'm surprised the bean counters don't consider that enough of a success to try and repeat.

[boney]

I don't want to knock anyone without the benefit of tasting product, but I wonder how much the points in this thread will apply to.....

http://www.canadianbeernews.com/2014/04 ... ra-region/

Perhaps the most meaningless quote ever: "crafty but with more of an approachable style".

That said, if their product is good I wish them success.

[TheSevenDuffs]

I don't want to knock anyone without the benefit of tasting product, but I wonder how much the points in this thread will apply to.....

http://www.canadianbeernews.com/2014/04 ... ra-region/

Perhaps the most meaningless quote ever: "crafty but with more of an approachable style".

That said, if their product is good I wish them success.

IMO, these guys are off to a bad start. Hopefully it works out for them and there are enough locals to fund their Kickstarter campaign.

[Tapsucker]

I don't want to knock anyone without the benefit of tasting product, but I wonder how much the points in this thread will apply to.....

http://www.canadianbeernews.com/2014/04 ... ra-region/

Perhaps the most meaningless quote ever: "crafty but with more of an approachable style".

That said, if their product is good I wish them success.

IMO, these guys are off to a bad start. Hopefully it works out for them and there are enough locals to fund their Kickstarter campaign.

Well one of them did go to Niagara College to learn to brew and run a brewery. You'd expect someone to leverage their degree doing something. I wish them well and there is nothing wrong with an "approachable" beer done well. I'm glad they didn't announce some exotic Belgian quad or coffee-mocha-strawberry porter. That's exactly where the marginal 'craft' breweries are failing.

[boney]

My concern is that "approachable" means making a beer so middle of the road that it offends no one but that no one really loves either. I have nothing against a basic pale, brown or porter. They can be super fresh, well balanced and truly great. However, It sounds like these gentlemen think they need to make something even more approachable than typical craft offerings. That makes me speculate that they want to dumb their product down to appeal to the perceived masses rather than just make a great pale ale. Unfortunately (or fortunately) the masses are ready for great pale ales now. I have no problem eating my words if I'm proven wrong. In fact, I hope I am.

[midlife crisis]

I don't want to knock anyone without the benefit of tasting product, but I wonder how much the points in this thread will apply to.....

http://www.canadianbeernews.com/2014/04 ... ra-region/

Perhaps the most meaningless quote ever: "crafty but with more of an approachable style".

That said, if their product is good I wish them success.

IMO, these guys are off to a bad start. Hopefully it works out for them and there are enough locals to fund their Kickstarter campaign.

Well one of them did go to Niagara College to learn to brew and run a brewery. You'd expect someone to leverage their degree doing something. I wish them well and there is nothing wrong with an "approachable" beer done well. I'm glad they didn't announce some exotic Belgian quad or coffee-mocha-strawberry porter. That's exactly where the marginal 'craft' breweries are failing.

Yes, but on the other hand isn't the constant refrain on this board that Ontario craft brewers are too meek, not as stylistically adventurous as their exalted American brethren, and too content to make boring pale ales and amber lagers?

[Tapsucker]

IMO, these guys are off to a bad start. Hopefully it works out for them and there are enough locals to fund their Kickstarter campaign.

Well one of them did go to Niagara College to learn to brew and run a brewery. You'd expect someone to leverage their degree doing something. I wish them well and there is nothing wrong with an "approachable" beer done well. I'm glad they didn't announce some exotic Belgian quad or coffee-mocha-strawberry porter. That's exactly where the marginal 'craft' breweries are failing.

Yes, but on the other hand isn't the constant refrain on this board that Ontario craft brewers are too meek, not as stylistically adventurous as their exalted American brethren, and too content to make boring pale ales and amber lagers?

Correct, but the topic of this thread is quality and one way quality suffers is when brewers overreach or hide behind fads rather than get their process in order.

[Craig]

Also, that's one of the more contentious refrains around here. The other side of the debate would rather see new brewers master simpler styles before they swing for the fences.

[Kel Varnsen]

But the fact is, if given the choice I would probably drink something from Granville Island or Creemore than something from Trafalgar. Hell there are a lot of beers from good "craft breweries" that I would choose GI or Creemore beers over.

Me two. When you look at how Creemore has scaled, you see the only thing keeping the big boys from brewing an outstanding beer and storming this market is their own dumb MBAs. They have the technology, know how and brewmasters. They just happen to have their heads so far up their branding asses that when challenged by micro brewers, their answer to protecting market share is to put lime in something, or try and create a fake micro brand without actually developing a decent recipe. Even efforts like 'Sick' Pints, that have turned out a few decent brews are trapped in a mentality of being a trophy brand or division v.s. a prototyping lab for future core beers.

Could you imagine how big a deal it would be if they turned Blue into a world class pilsner? Made Keiths a knockout traditional IPA? Probably the only example that comes to mind of a well executed beer that has been mainstream from the start is Blue Moon/Ricard's White. I'm surprised the bean counters don't consider that enough of a success to try and repeat.

That's sort of the thing isn't it. That is why I figured that the brewers association in the US has started to push back with their whole real craft vs fake craft thing (crafty?). Because they know that if one of the big guys decided to make an IPA as good as heady topper they probably could.

[midlife crisis]

Also, that's one of the more contentious refrains around here. The other side of the debate would rather see new brewers master simpler styles before they swing for the fences.

Fair enough, but I rarely see that side articulated when the inevitable "boring Ontario breweries" or "Founders/Bells/Stone (etc) are so good they 'blow away' Ontario breweries" arguments are made. For the record, I strongly disagree with that sentiment and was just playing devil's advocate. I'm a big fan of some of the breweries that contingent might find boring, such as Grand River, Left Field, Durham, Cameron's, Black Oak, etc.

[admviolin]

"What's the point of this?"

That's now something I'm publicly cautioning people on. I saw someone post a can design today as their first tweet. Can said "Lager Beer" on it.

Worry about what's in the can, Ignatz! What kind of schmuck cares about the visual quality of the graphics before worrying about what goes in the packaging? The kind who's going to lose the business nine months in and beg for cash on kickstarter.

[TheSevenDuffs]

"What's the point of this?"

That's now something I'm publicly cautioning people on. I saw someone post a can design today as their first tweet. Can said "Lager Beer" on it.

Worry about what's in the can, Ignatz! What kind of schmuck cares about the visual quality of the graphics before worrying about what goes in the packaging? The kind who's going to lose the business nine months in and beg for cash on kickstarter.

lol. That's a blast from the past!

[Malcolm]

Ha! I wonder if he's still at it.