Does craft beer have a quality problem?

[sprague11]

He still posts the odd photoshop on Facebook from time to time.

We seem to be going in a few different directions in this province, with neither really being all that great:

1. Starting up with a tired and true pale lager or kinda sorta pale ale that everybody and their brother in the US stopped brewing 15 years ago. If that's what you feel will truly sell then more power to you, but pardon me for yawning.

2. Going for a big double barrel aged extreme beer or an oaked sour right out of the gate. Nothing like making a first impression with a beer that can strip enamel off of teeth!

3. Barrel Aging something that probably didn't warrant such a treatment anyways (Cameron's Syndrome).

4. Fancy packaging and Marketing gimmicks for big bucks. How many Hawaiian Moroccan style lagers brewed with Moxy Fruvous and Johnny Knoxville under partnership with the NHLPA do we need? In a cellophane wrapped 750 ML bottle for 18 bucks no less.

We have some of our brewers doing all four of these - sometimes all within the same beer

[midlife crisis]

He still posts the odd photoshop on Facebook from time to time.

We seem to be going in a few different directions in this province, with neither really being all that great:

1. Starting up with a tired and true pale lager or kinda sorta pale ale that everybody and their brother in the US stopped brewing 15 years ago. If that's what you feel will truly sell then more power to you, but pardon me for yawning.

2. Going for a big double barrel aged extreme beer or an oaked sour right out of the gate. Nothing like making a first impression with a beer that can strip enamel off of teeth!

3. Barrel Aging something that probably didn't warrant such a treatment anyways (Cameron's Syndrome).

4. Fancy packaging and Marketing gimmicks for big bucks. How many Hawaiian Moroccan style lagers brewed with Moxy Fruvous and Johnny Knoxville under partnership with the NHLPA do we need? In a cellophane wrapped 750 ML bottle for 18 bucks no less.

We have some of our brewers doing all four of these - sometimes all within the same beer

Those are very glib comments but only prove the point I was trying to make above. You neither want our craft breweries to make experimental, extreme beers, nor make standard lagers and pale ales because the US craft breweries have been there and done that (as if that matters). So what is it that you want our craft breweries to do?

[lister]

3. Barrel Aging something that probably didn't warrant such a treatment anyways (Cameron's Syndrome).

Nothing wrong with trying something different. Never know, might turn out something good. If nothing was tried then we'd have static classic beers like what's predominately over in Europe. Nothing wrong with them but we'd have missed out on some of the good stuff that's happened in the US in the past 20 years.

For my last two Brooklyn Brewshop IPA mixes I did a whiskey oak aged one and a bourbon oak aged one. Both turned out quite good. I'm not a huge US style IPA fan so the boozy oak took some of the edge off and smelled nice too. This weekend I'm doing a bourbon oak aged dubbel. Why not?!

[ercousin]

3. Barrel Aging something that probably didn't warrant such a treatment anyways (Cameron's Syndrome).

Nothing wrong with trying something different. Never know, might turn out something good. If nothing was tried then we'd have static classic beers like what's predominately over in Europe. Nothing wrong with them but we'd have missed out on some of the good stuff that's happened in the US in the past 20 years.

For my last two Brooklyn Brewshop IPA mixes I did a whiskey oak aged one and a bourbon oak aged one. Both turned out quite good. I'm not a huge US style IPA fan so the boozy oak took some of the edge off and smelled nice too. This weekend I'm doing a bourbon oak aged dubbel. Why not?!

I'm of the opinion that Cameron's have been doing some good things in barrels. Obsidian was a great beer and had perfect balance between barrel and beer, and rum barrels instead of the standard whisky or wine was pretty unique. Their Cognac barrel aged Special Pale Ale was a hit too. Their barrel aged doppelbock won bronze at OBAs so they are doing something right.

[iguenard]

3. Barrel Aging something that probably didn't warrant such a treatment anyways (Cameron's Syndrome).

Nothing wrong with trying something different. Never know, might turn out something good. If nothing was tried then we'd have static classic beers like what's predominately over in Europe. Nothing wrong with them but we'd have missed out on some of the good stuff that's happened in the US in the past 20 years.

For my last two Brooklyn Brewshop IPA mixes I did a whiskey oak aged one and a bourbon oak aged one. Both turned out quite good. I'm not a huge US style IPA fan so the boozy oak took some of the edge off and smelled nice too. This weekend I'm doing a bourbon oak aged dubbel. Why not?!

I'm of the opinion that Cameron's have been doing some good things in barrels. Obsidian was a great beer and had perfect balance between barrel and beer, and rum barrels instead of the standard whisky or wine was pretty unique. Their Cognac barrel aged Special Pale Ale was a hit too. Their barrel aged doppelbock won bronze at OBAs so they are doing something right.

If you think Camerons doppelbock was any good, you're in line for some great discoveries and will love whats being brewed elsewhere.

I have to be sprague11's support on this... the intent is good, but fuck man, how long can you support mediocre brews until you realize that life is best lived drinking good beer... Drink local, not loco.

[sprague11]

To answer an above question (smartphones and quoting seem to be opposing terms for me tonight), i would personally want to see a brewer enter the market with something other than the same old same old, then work his way up to barrel aging, etc. Develop the base beer, perfect it, then start experimenting.

Was the base beer for Canny Man a good scotch ale? I probably would feel that experiment would have been a little more noble if radical road had a good scotch ale in the market for a while and came up with a bit of a dud when they tried to barrel age the thing rather than coming out with a sledgehammer of a beer to start.

I had this very conversation with a noteworthy brewer on a recent trip stateside. If someone came into this market with a good west coast style ipa, a good year round porter, scotch ale, a good seasonal stout, etc. they could really open some eyes. Once they have the quality of those beers established then start the barrel aging, etc. Seeing something like barrel aged on the label should intrigue me rather than worry me - Especially at some of the premium prices ive seen in the lcbo in the past year.

strictly my opinion of course. Theres probably no real way to say all that without sounding a bit glib, especially with so many subjective tastes.

[sprague11]

I'll use Tempest as an example of how to do this right. Amsterdam perfected the base beer, saw there was a demand for it, then over time developed and released the barrel aged and (hopefully being bottled some day) Full City versions.

[TheSevenDuffs]

I'm of the opinion that Cameron's have been doing some good things in barrels. Obsidian was a great beer and had perfect balance between barrel and beer, and rum barrels instead of the standard whisky or wine was pretty unique. Their Cognac barrel aged Special Pale Ale was a hit too. Their barrel aged doppelbock won bronze at OBAs so they are doing something right.

For real?

I am at a complete loss for words here.

[iguenard]

I'm of the opinion that Cameron's have been doing some good things in barrels. Obsidian was a great beer and had perfect balance between barrel and beer, and rum barrels instead of the standard whisky or wine was pretty unique. Their Cognac barrel aged Special Pale Ale was a hit too. Their barrel aged doppelbock won bronze at OBAs so they are doing something right.

For real?

I am at a complete loss for words here.

I have ordered a bronze statue of myself after this went down. Price of bronze was never this low

[TheSevenDuffs]

I have ordered a bronze statue of myself after this went down. Price of bronze was never this low

LOL. One thing I have learned over the years is to never judge a beer based on any medals it has won, especially at Canadian/Ontario brewing awards.

[sprague11]

Frank D'Angelo still wears his medals while he's singing Andy Wlliams songs.

[boney]

People like what they like. Nothing wrong with that.

[Tapsucker]

People like what they like. Nothing wrong with that.

That's it, ruin a perfectly stupid thread with a reasonable comment like that.

[Bearing]

People like what they like. Nothing wrong with that.

Except when they're wrong

[El Pinguino]

My opinion....
In response to the subject of the thread I say 'no'.

Small time brewers are going to have plenty of bad beers. Some only care to brew mediocrity. Some do strive for quality, others go for crazy experiments.

Every one of them has their niche, which will be perfect for some beer drinkers out there. Those that have tainted/infected beers and similar issues quite often...will fade away.

As long as the beer isn't being poisoned and killing dozens of people, like happened down here in Ecuador, I embrace poor quality craft beer as it makes me appreciate the good stuff even more.