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atomeyes
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Postby atomeyes » Tue May 20, 2014 12:45 pm

Bytowner wrote:
JerCraigs wrote:
ercousin wrote:This seems like the kind of thing that a craft brewery could challenge in a superior or supreme court. The government is blantantly favoring 3 companies out of over 100 by allowing only those 3 to own stores.


It would have to be the OCB or a group like the OCB, the litigation would just cost too much for a single brewery to do it.


I actually saw a half-serious idea the other day from a lawyer about this:

1. Crowd-fund a private beer store (plus a whole lot extra)
2. Get shut down
3. Challenge the closure in the courts
4. Win and be a hero

There's substantial legal opinion that the current system isn't defensible before a judge or set of judges. Just takes someone with a hunk of cash who is missing the gene that forces the majority of Ontarians to live permanently bent over.


how do you propose getting your AGCO license to do this?
Bytowner
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Postby Bytowner » Tue May 20, 2014 2:32 pm

atomeyes wrote:
how do you propose getting your AGCO license to do this?


Fine, even more straightforward. Be refused, appeal to LAT, appeal to Superior Court, appeal to Court of Appeal, appeal to SCOC, hope we're not all dead by the time a decision is made.
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NRman
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Postby NRman » Tue May 20, 2014 6:03 pm

http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario_election/2014/05/19/why_the_beer_store_is_toasting_tim_hudaks_tories_cohn.html

Canada’s National Brewers (which speaks for The Beer Store) recently hired Emma Breen — a Hudak family friend and former political staffer in the Mike Harris government — as Ontario vice-president.
Bytowner
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Postby Bytowner » Thu May 22, 2014 1:30 pm

Craft beer hipster before it was cool
atomeyes
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Postby atomeyes » Mon May 26, 2014 2:14 pm

some interesting news as of late:

I was read a post on FB by Stop the Quarry. They wanted the Conservatives to give their position on farmland and water preservation. long story short: the Conservatives didn't want to give their position because, as their advisor stated, they've gotten into trouble in past elections by having too broad of a platform (something I think is true). Therefore, they don't want to wade into those discussions.

Apply that to the Beer Store/LCBO BS and you've found a likely reason as to why it isn't an election issue. Hudak may fear alienating TBS employees and getting union bosses really rankled. He doesn't want to lose some of those boats and open another front in his push towards the election.

Another interesting article:

Adam Radwanski published 2 stories today. The most interesting one was how the NDP feared that there was a perception that a vote for them equaled vote splitting for the other 2 parties. recent polls show that's apparently true.

So....

Just some thought if you plan on deciding your vote based on/partially based on LCBO/Beer Store/AGCO laws. you can vote for status quo (Liberals), the faint possibility of changes and the hope that a premier who lives in wine country will be pressured by his constituents to make changes (Conservatives), or cast a vote that will likely have little to no consequence in anything changing due to low possibilities of victory and previous statements that they don't want anything about our system to change (NDP)
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Postby Masterplan » Mon May 26, 2014 2:43 pm

As I see it our choices are:

1) the status quo
2) dumb, or
3) dumber.
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Postby toweringpine » Mon May 26, 2014 3:42 pm

atomeyes wrote:some interesting news as of late:
Just some thought if you plan on deciding your vote based on/partially based on LCBO/Beer Store/AGCO laws. you can vote for status quo (Liberals), the faint possibility of changes and the hope that a premier who lives in wine country will be pressured by his constituents to make changes (Conservatives), or cast a vote that will likely have little to no consequence in anything changing due to low possibilities of victory and previous statements that they don't want anything about our system to change (NDP)


You could always give a vote to the Greens. I realize that voting for a government based only on their beer sales policy is pretty twisted however there is a bit more to it... the greens actually have some pretty decent ideas and by voting for them you will send a message that the big three have missed the mark for the past decade and people are hungry for some new ideas and attitudes. Worse than voting for a party that has no realistic chance of winning is not voting at all. When the voter turn out is under fifty percent the parties can rightly assume that people don't care when in fact the problem is more that all the options suck so why bother. Letting them know that people do care but are voting for someone who isn't even invited to the debates sends a more useful message and if enough people send it maybe someone will start to listen.

Now, I am left with the prospect of picking the best of the bums running in the city election. I think that may be a harder decision.
atomeyes
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Postby atomeyes » Mon May 26, 2014 3:48 pm

toweringpine wrote:
atomeyes wrote:some interesting news as of late:
Just some thought if you plan on deciding your vote based on/partially based on LCBO/Beer Store/AGCO laws. you can vote for status quo (Liberals), the faint possibility of changes and the hope that a premier who lives in wine country will be pressured by his constituents to make changes (Conservatives), or cast a vote that will likely have little to no consequence in anything changing due to low possibilities of victory and previous statements that they don't want anything about our system to change (NDP)


You could always give a vote to the Greens. I realize that voting for a government based only on their beer sales policy is pretty twisted however there is a bit more to it... the greens actually have some pretty decent ideas and by voting for them you will send a message that the big three have missed the mark for the past decade and people are hungry for some new ideas and attitudes. Worse than voting for a party that has no realistic chance of winning is not voting at all. When the voter turn out is under fifty percent the parties can rightly assume that people don't care when in fact the problem is more that all the options suck so why bother. Letting them know that people do care but are voting for someone who isn't even invited to the debates sends a more useful message and if enough people send it maybe someone will start to listen.

Now, I am left with the prospect of picking the best of the bums running in the city election. I think that may be a harder decision.

a vote for the Greens is indeed a nod in a certain direction. but if you are very digusted with what the Liberals have done over the last 3 terms or do not like Hudak's platform, then you're essentially casting away your vote and not having a say as to who will win the seat in your riding.

(I'm in an NDP riding, so my vote's pretty much useless)
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Postby toweringpine » Mon May 26, 2014 8:46 pm

Beats not voting at all, which is what most eligible voters did last time. Also what the Liberals are counting on by having a very short campaign and a summer vote. They are lousy at governing but excellent at running elections.
The notion that we have only two real options and voting for anyone but those two is a waste will never hold any water with me. I can see the logic behind such thinking but just cannot subscribe to it.
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lister
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Postby lister » Mon May 26, 2014 10:03 pm

toweringpine wrote:You could always give a vote to the Greens. I realize that voting for a government based only on their beer sales policy is pretty twisted however there is a bit more to it... the greens actually have some pretty decent ideas and by voting for them you will send a message that the big three have missed the mark for the past decade and people are hungry for some new ideas and attitudes. Worse than voting for a party that has no realistic chance of winning is not voting at all. When the voter turn out is under fifty percent the parties can rightly assume that people don't care when in fact the problem is more that all the options suck so why bother. Letting them know that people do care but are voting for someone who isn't even invited to the debates sends a more useful message and if enough people send it maybe someone will start to listen.


Over the years due to where I've lived I've gone back and forth between voting Green and not voting at all. At this point I'm likely going to take the above approach going forward and stop not voting.

I didn't vote in the last municipal election but I'm going to have to this year to help make sure that douchebag Ford doesn't get reelected. I think this is the one time that votes for Ford should be exposed so those people get publicly humiliated.

atomeyes wrote:(I'm in an NDP riding, so my vote's pretty much useless)


I'm in the same boat and have been for nearly two decades, first in the St Pauls riding with the Liberals and now Trinity Spadina with the NDP. I hate having automatic wins for any party. And don't take that to mean I'm pro PC/Conservative. I'm all over the map politically and tend to slightly favour individuals over their parties.

At this point if it were up to me, I'd let the LCBO and the Beer Store continue to exist with the LCBO focusing more on the upscale booze, let the craft brewers do their thing and allow private selling at stores with a massive fine for a first offence for underage selling and a second massive fine plus a permanent license revocation so no more booze selling. The only loser is the Beer Store, as it should be.
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Postby NRman » Tue May 27, 2014 5:22 am

toweringpine wrote:... the greens actually have some pretty decent ideas and by voting for them you will send a message that the big three have missed the mark for the past decade and people are hungry for some new ideas and attitudes.

^this. The Greens are the only party supporting good ideas like this
http://www.gpo.ca/blog/2012-08-20/everything-you-wanted-know-about-one-school-board
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Postby Kel Varnsen » Tue May 27, 2014 6:33 am

toweringpine wrote:Beats not voting at all, which is what most eligible voters did last time.


That's the thing that always gets me. When people talk about not voting for one of the parties that has a chance= throwing your vote away it kind of makes me laugh. I mean if even half of the people who didn't bother to vote last time, voted for a say a party that didn't have a chance of winning, I really believe that all of the major parties would have to completely overhaul their platforms. Because they would be freaked out that there was this massive block of voters out there, that wasn't voting for them.
atomeyes
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Postby atomeyes » Tue May 27, 2014 6:50 am

Kel Varnsen wrote:
toweringpine wrote:Beats not voting at all, which is what most eligible voters did last time.


That's the thing that always gets me. When people talk about not voting for one of the parties that has a chance= throwing your vote away it kind of makes me laugh. I mean if even half of the people who didn't bother to vote last time, voted for a say a party that didn't have a chance of winning, I really believe that all of the major parties would have to completely overhaul their platforms. Because they would be freaked out that there was this massive block of voters out there, that wasn't voting for them.


yep.
that seems to be part of the conservatives' strategy this time around. voter apathy means there's less need to go after the swing vote and more of a push to get Conservative voters to get out and vote.

if you can get more of your supporters to get out and vote, then you'll win. or so the Conservatives are thinking/hoping.
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Postby sprague11 » Tue May 27, 2014 9:02 am

Up in my area, unless the NDP are running a candidate named "Garage Sale Saturday" then this riding is staying Blue. Even the CC party candidate has more presence than the NDP up here.
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Postby JeffPorter » Tue May 27, 2014 4:48 pm

sprague11 wrote:Up in my area, unless the NDP are running a candidate named "Garage Sale Saturday" then this riding is staying Blue. Even the CC party candidate has more presence than the NDP up here.


a dynamic candidate who gets the vote out can change everything. My part of the province is a sea of blue except for my riding where Jagmeet Singh unseated the PC candidate in 2011 which is rare. And he did it by getting out the suburban youth vote. ..even rarer.
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