Fairness at the "Taps"

Discuss beer or anything else that comes to mind in here.

Moderators: GregClow, Cass

User avatar
Cass
Beer Superstar
Posts: 3300
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 7:00 pm
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Fairness at the "Taps"

Postby Cass » Sat Sep 06, 2014 9:20 am

Found this while searching around, looks like there is a law that went into effect in August called the "Fairness at the Pumps Act" to ensure that we get what we pay for with things like gas, electricity and the like.

Well, it also seems to include beer and consumers can file a complaint if you don't get a pint when it's called a pint, with substantial penalties for businesses.

https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/080.nsf/eng/home

PINTS OF DRAFT BEER
In order to process your complaint, please provide:

Your name and contact information;
The name and address of the establishment;
Info on how you have attempted to resolve the matter;
A photo of the menu or advertisement showing the quantity claimed to have been dispensed, if possible; and
The sales receipt, if you have it.
Before submitting your complaint, consider the following:

A pint contains 20 fl. oz. (568 ml) in Canada.
The limit of error for 20 fl. oz. is 0.5 fl. oz.—the foam (head) is not included in the measurement.
When a quantity other than a pint is advertised, the quantity served must be must be equal to the stated quantity within the limit of error.


Any thoughts on this? I know from time to time the 'size of a pint' conversation comes up, but it tends to be around bars who call it a 'pint' but its not actually 20oz, yet do not mislead patrons as to its size.

For example, Duke's Refresher at Yonge/Gerrard serves what they call 'pints', but also state that they're 10 ounces. That's kind of just a joke in terminology, but not necessarily misleading. Or is it?
User avatar
Cass
Beer Superstar
Posts: 3300
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 7:00 pm
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Postby Cass » Sat Sep 06, 2014 9:44 am

The more I look at this, what's quite interesting is the "limit of error" for any size poured.

It looks like that for "INDIVIDUALLY MEASURED COMMODITIES" of 10.5 fl. oz. to 17.5 fl. oz., the margin of error is 3%, and from 17.5 fl. oz. to 35.2 fl. oz., the margin is 0.5oz.

What this looks like to me is bars that short-pour could be busted (or at least threatened) pretty easily. And head doesn't count in the measure.

I'm sure we all see a lot of bars that are guilty of this, either on purpose or due to laziness or speed of service. I saw a bartender this week pour a "pint" of stout and it was just past 3/4 on the glass.[/quote]
User avatar
Belgian
Bar Towel Legend
Posts: 9824
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2004 6:15 pm
Location: Earth

Postby Belgian » Sat Sep 06, 2014 4:49 pm

Cass wrote:I saw a bartender this week pour a "pint" of stout and it was just past 3/4 on the glass.

And Cass there's a lot more volume in the (wider) top 1/3 of the pint sleeve than there is in the bottom 1/3rd. More's the shame, as that stout poured to the 3/4 mark was barely past half the glass' volume (still cost your friend 8 bucks I bet ya, not four or five bucks.)
In Beerum Veritas
User avatar
El Pinguino
Seasoned Drinker
Posts: 1395
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 6:02 pm
Location: Downtown TO / Galapagos Islands
Contact:

Postby El Pinguino » Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:00 pm

Hmm. Very interesting stuff....had no clue such "rules" existed, although I guess I'm not really surprised.
User avatar
NRman
Bar Fly
Posts: 607
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2010 4:37 pm
Location: Waterloo

Postby NRman » Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:21 pm

We carry several of these.
And have used them with almost always positive results.
Seriously.
:-)
http://www.thebeergauge.com/
Image

I'd love to see German style 0.3 and 0.5 l markings... then who cares ...we're all looking at the same mark.
Image
User avatar
ErkLR
Posts: 380
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:21 am
Location: London, ON

Postby ErkLR » Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:18 am

NRman wrote:thebeergauge

I'd love to see German style 0.3 and 0.5 l markings... then who cares ...we're all looking at the same mark.


I agree with markings on the glass being one of the best options. From that beer gauge site, I'd say most "pints" I get are only in the 12-13 oz range, but I'm not sure that the top mark, 15 oz, can reasonably be carried by most waitresses without spilling. If you're sitting at the bar, it's a different matter of course, but there's still the head.

Regarding the law, a lot of places may be exempt because in my experience, they don't advertise the size, just the brands available. Those that do advertise volume, I have seen "16 oz" advertised with the beer served in a 16 oz glass. But since 16 oz refers to the top lip of the glass, which is impractical to fill to, they'd definitely be breaking the law. I think that mostly comes from ignorance, ie "we've got 16 oz glasses, so we put 16 oz on the menu". I'm not opposed to them getting an education and advertising that you're really getting about 12 oz in that glass.
liamt07
Bar Fly
Posts: 597
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:36 pm
Location: Downsview/Toronto

Postby liamt07 » Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:23 am

Truthfully, how many places would actually honour this if there was a discrepancy?
User avatar
El Pinguino
Seasoned Drinker
Posts: 1395
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 6:02 pm
Location: Downtown TO / Galapagos Islands
Contact:

Postby El Pinguino » Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:10 pm

liamt07 wrote:Truthfully, how many places would actually honour this if there was a discrepancy?


They may not want to, but if they realized the repercussions, all of them.
Kel Varnsen
Bar Fly
Posts: 641
Joined: Mon May 25, 2009 8:25 am
Location: Ottawa

Postby Kel Varnsen » Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:23 pm

El Pinguino wrote:
liamt07 wrote:Truthfully, how many places would actually honour this if there was a discrepancy?


They may not want to, but if they realized the repercussions, all of them.


You would think this thing would be enforced like crazy (at least in a place like Ottawa). I can just picture a ton of Industry Canada employees who would happily volunteer to do "surprise inspections" of bars and pubs (at least around Ottawa) to make sure accurate pints are being poured.
User avatar
Derek
Beer Superstar
Posts: 3192
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:11 pm
Location: Kelowna, BC
Contact:

Postby Derek » Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:48 pm

Getting at least 19.5oz in one of those stackable pint glasses is most certainly a rarity.

NRman wrote:We carry several of these.
And have used them with almost always positive results.
Seriously.
:-)
http://www.thebeergauge.com/
Image


The beer gauge is for a 16oz 'US Pint'.

We need one for the 20oz... BarTowel 'business' cards? Cass?
icemachine
Beer Superstar
Posts: 2637
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:20 am
Location: Aurora, ON
Contact:

Postby icemachine » Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:22 pm

I think most of the bars I frwquent use Nonics rather than shaker pints, but if they do use shakers, it's almost always a 16oz size. And I have been known to ask for a top up when getting short pours
"Everything ... is happening" - Bob Cole
User avatar
Belgian
Bar Towel Legend
Posts: 9824
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2004 6:15 pm
Location: Earth

Postby Belgian » Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:38 pm

El Pinguino wrote:
liamt07 wrote:Truthfully, how many places would actually honour this if there was a discrepancy?

They may not want to, but if they realized the repercussions, all of them.

I'd like to see our government actively protecting consumers from 'fake' servings. It's insane the LCBO has to test and re-label all heck out of all new imported beers - brews sold worldwide without this super-picky process - and yet bars here are free to neither declare nor honor serving sizes by oz/milliliter and the alcohol by % volume.

Very twisted double-standard isn't it? How do you gauge your alcohol consumption on a night out as accurately as you can while enjoying bottles at home?
In Beerum Veritas
User avatar
Cass
Beer Superstar
Posts: 3300
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 7:00 pm
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Postby Cass » Fri Sep 19, 2014 8:49 am

Article in the Star today about this:

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014/09 ... e_law.html
User avatar
Belgian
Bar Towel Legend
Posts: 9824
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2004 6:15 pm
Location: Earth

Postby Belgian » Fri Sep 19, 2014 12:16 pm

^
The federal government is cracking down on bars that advertise a pint of beer but fail to pour a full 20 ounces of suds — and most of those tested by the Star are coming up short.
Of the 15 downtown Toronto establishments the Star visited, only three poured a full 20 ounces (the official size of an imperial pint) of draught beer. Several came close, at around 18 ounces, while others were as much as six ounces off.

... so when a bar sells maybe 15 oz shaker pours when you order 'a pint' for 8 bucks, the cost-per-REAL-pint-volume is closer to 11 bucks. And don't forget a generous tip for each of the smaller servings.... compounding your costs still more.

The Delirium Tremens, though is nearly always in a 14oz serving - that kind of weakens the good points of the article. I also wish it asserted that bars be required to declare & adhere to serving sizes under LLBO regs - none of this Wild West stuff, these are liquor licensees who can lose their privilege to sell.

One more thought - why would brewers provide more 'honest' branded draught beer glassware, when they are doing everything to stay in the graces of of the tap house? If there are no firm Ontario regulations, the less honest glassware providers might have a competitive advantage selling to bars.
In Beerum Veritas
User avatar
Cass
Beer Superstar
Posts: 3300
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 7:00 pm
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Postby Cass » Fri Sep 19, 2014 12:28 pm

One of the things that I mentioned when I spoke to the reporter is that the law isn't just for "pints" but that any serving size needs to be accurate as advertised. That wasn't captured in there.

Agree, the Delirium thing harms it a bit as any beer person knows that it's almost never served as a 'pint'. Branded glassware was probably had a huge impact on their tests.

Return to “Random Talk”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 3 guests