Fairness at the "Taps"

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JerCraigs
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Postby JerCraigs » Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:02 am

The fact that they bought completely different beers at each place doesn't help either. Of course Moosehead is cheaper than Delirium...
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Postby Belgian » Sat Sep 20, 2014 1:24 pm

Whatever the blamed causes, all irrelevant smoke, the article shows that difference by 'error' or 'inaccuracy' pretty much always benefits the house whether or not by intent.

All bars need to do is state the serving size in each case, and to stick to that as though their livelihood depends on it. We're paying at least around forty cents per ounce of beer, that's then your legal property so I should think every ounce matters.

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Postby Publican » Sat Sep 20, 2014 1:42 pm

The Granite serves a 18 oz "pint" and they state that on their menu cards on the tables. Even though they state it I still would want 2 more ounces of beer, not including head. When I mentioned this to a server she was not impressed. What should happen is if a pub is not serving a full 20 ounces the cost of the beer should be lower.
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JerCraigs
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Postby JerCraigs » Mon Sep 22, 2014 6:51 am

Publican wrote:The Granite serves a 18 oz "pint" and they state that on their menu cards on the tables. Even though they state it I still would want 2 more ounces of beer, not including head. When I mentioned this to a server she was not impressed. What should happen is if a pub is not serving a full 20 ounces the cost of the beer should be lower.


Youre assuming its not already lower. None of these places are going to increase the size and keep the price the same! They will raise the prices.
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Postby Publican » Mon Sep 22, 2014 10:23 am

The Granite ( and other pubs ) should just buy 22 ounce glasses so people would get a full 20 ounce pint. Currently the Granite charges $7.50 for a 18 ounce glass. I'd be willing to pay $7.75 for a full pint. One great thing the Granite does is offer it's ale in pitchers which is the most economical way to drink Granite beer at the pub. It's even cheaper to buy the growlers.
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Cass
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Postby Cass » Mon Sep 22, 2014 10:37 am

Branded glassware is going to be a big problem for bars, as if they want to follow the rules they'd have to state what each branded glass's size is.

I was at a bar last night (one that I enjoy) and their menu states "$x/pint", listed for each brand. The beer is in fact poured into the corresponding branded glass, which isn't actually a true pint. That's a clear violation and something that's easily fixed, but one that will probably just persist.
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Postby Cass » Mon Sep 22, 2014 10:42 am

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Does really warrant charging 8 bucks foir less than a pint?

Postby Belgian » Mon Sep 22, 2014 4:01 pm

JerCraigs wrote:
Publican wrote:What should happen is if a pub is not serving a full 20 ounces the cost of the beer should be lower.

Youre assuming its not already lower. None of these places are going to increase the size and keep the price the same! They will raise the prices.

Pont is bars can't have it both ways - they have to SAY it's less than a pint (and declare its volume in oz) or they have to provide a TRUE pint if they call it one.

Otherwise they have a conflict of interest to every time sell 'not quite a pint.' They would of course want the competitive advantage (or equal advantage) of calling it something it's not, because after all 'everyone's doing it' and a blind eye is turned.

Maybe in reality Jer if people expect bars have been selling them 'pints' all these years, and the bars were suddenly made to pour 20 oz/ per, bars would still want to maintain some competitive pricing. Beer drinkers won't like being informed they were 'lied' to all along AND this is what a real pint now costs - what a double blow that would be.

At very least, let's fairly state the oz/pour in the product description. Or in Metric. Let consumers do their own math as to what they consider better value per dollar if that's important to them.
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JerCraigs
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Postby JerCraigs » Mon Sep 22, 2014 8:55 pm

Don't get me wrong, I agree that sizes should be properly stated on the menu/board etc. Any branded glassware could easily have a fill line on it. I just think that there is this expectation that prices are going to somehow change when it reality you will likely get the same glass at the same price. The only change might be that you chooise buy Brand X over Brand Y if it turns out to be slightly cheaper/oz
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Postby Belgian » Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:41 pm

Sure, glass prices and sizes could stay the same, and the now clearly-stated glass sizing might appear a bit random and arbitrary and will, as you say, allow people to make their own cost-to-value judgments. Could quickly-shifting brand loyalty not change the picture as well, though.... I could foresee opportunism in offering 'true' pints to beat out other brands, and a little healthy competition in price-per-oz while breweries have the public's attention (all press is good press).

Disclosure of volume will also allow consumers to more accurately estimate their alcohol intake, for safey and health concerns. All important to the nanny-state agenda. 8)
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Postby skootles » Tue Sep 23, 2014 3:51 pm

When we went to Duke's Refresher for the ABV event last week, I noticed that their menu listed a "pint" at 10oz.

Image

On the one hand, it's nice that they listed the size, but on the other, 10oz is quite literally a half pint, not a pint.
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Postby darmokandjalad » Tue Sep 23, 2014 5:27 pm

skootles wrote:When we went to Duke's Refresher for the ABV event last week, I noticed that their menu listed a "pint" at 10oz.

On the one hand, it's nice that they listed the size, but on the other, 10oz is quite literally a half pint, not a pint.


You should not be able to use the word "pint" if the volume being poured is not a pint as legally defined in this country. Words have definitions, and in the case of units of measurement, those definitions are quite explicit.

The idea of a 10 oz. (or any other sub-20 oz.) pint is asinine. It's like a gas station selling "900 mL litres" of gasoline. You don't get to arbitrarily redefine the value of a unit of measurement. That's not how things work.

Make up another word to describe your 10 oz. pour, because the word 'pint' has already been assigned to a different volume. Hell, just leave the word 'pint' out entirely and just say 10 oz. glass/pour/whatever. Or half-pint, that works too, at least in this case.
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Postby Tapsucker » Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:00 pm

Since I'm always looking for the passive-aggressive solution, perhaps the solution is to always ask your server/bartender exactly how many oz (or legally in Canada ml) they will serve you if you order. Seriously, always ask, even when reordering. It will drive the house nuts if they are fudging.

If he/she tells you it's 14 oz and that's what you get, you can decide if that's worth the price they are charging. Otherwise walk. There is no shortage of places to drink.

We are out there to enjoy beer, company and maybe the bar we are in and decide for ourselves if the deal is right. As for policing them, is it our job? Do you ever double check any other measure as a consumer? You either trust the government to enforce or you use your basic intelligence, as in "this does not seem like a decent pint for the money".
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Postby groulxsome » Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:08 pm

I wrote up a bit of a thing because I was having multiple conversations about this in multiple places (other beer forums, facebook, twitter) and I have some pretty strong feelings about it. I don't think Canada uses the 568 ml pint and I could not find a single branded glass in my house that was actually 568 ml. Most of the glasses I have are ideal for 500 ml of beer, with room for head.

Forget at the pumps, I have no way to pour a pint of homebrew by the government's definition and I've no shortage of glasses.

I took some pictures measuring glasses and stuff if anyone wants to see what I'm on about (not a clickbate thing, I don't even blog usually I just needed a pastebin with pictures/links). I would really like to know who decided a pint in Canada is "20 ounces" since most every glass I've come across is 500 ml.

http://transcanadabeer.wordpress.com/20 ... the-pumps/
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Postby Belgian » Tue Sep 23, 2014 8:14 pm

groulxsome wrote:I do not believe that “A pint contains 20 fl. oz. (568 ml) in Canada.” I think it generally contains 500 ml plus or minus 25 ml for foam.

Well that's funny because I'd call that a half liter. In Germany the shorthand is commonly "half", "quarter" or "third" for servings 500, 250 and 330ml - nice clear purchasing agreement, fill lines to assure the transaction, no guessing games.

I'd be happy to ban the word pint if we discarded the whole shell-game of Imperial pints, US Pints and all Mystery Pints - and if instead we had Euro-style metric glassware with fill lines. We can even call them half, third and (if ever done) quarter, referring to the fraction of a liter - just handier to yell while ordering in a loud place.
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