Debate: is Ontario's beer scene really bland?

midlife crisis · Post by **midlife crisis** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 11:33 am

Apart from sours, which are always going to be a niche item with a very small market share and therefore not really central to the argument IMO, what styles are we supposedly lacking from our local brewers in Ontario? I agree with Jordan and others that our brewing scene is healthy, much better than most U.S. states (have you been to South Carolina or Alabama or Mississippi lately?) but our distribution remains inadequate and unnecessary regulation is a big issue.

matt7215 · Post by **matt7215** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 11:49 am

midlife crisis wrote: what styles are we supposedly lacking from our local brewers in Ontario?

Porter
Belgian Strong Dark
Belgian Strong Golden
Belgian Dubbel, Triple, Quad
Barley Wine
American Strong Ales (Imperial Browns, Imperial Porter, Imperial Reds)
Biere De Garde
Doppelbock
Old Ale
Scotch Ale

Derek · Post by **Derek** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 11:52 am

midlife crisis wrote:what styles are we supposedly lacking from our local brewers in Ontario?

It'd be interesting if someone went through one of the lists of 'styles':
http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/catdex.php
http://www.brewersassociation.org/wp-co ... _FINAL.pdf
http://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/style/

...and listed regularly available (local) brews. For regular provincial distribution, I'd be very surprised if you got 25%. Including seasonal and brewery-only sales you'd certainly do a lot better... maybe even a passing grade!

midlife crisis · Post by **midlife crisis** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 12:16 pm

matt7215 wrote:
Porter GLB ROBUST, GLB PLAIN, GLB HARRY PORTER
Belgian Strong Dark
Belgian Strong Golden AUDREY HOPBURN, OAST HOUSE, FORKED RIVER
Belgian Dubbel, Triple, Quad BLOCK 3 DEAD NOW DUBBEL, FORKED RIVER BELGIAN DUBBEL
Barley Wine BUSH PILOT, FORKED RIVER VINDICATION, GRANITE, MILL STREET, AMSTERDAM ADVENTURE SERIES
American Strong Ales Imperial Browns, Imperial Porter CAMERONS OBSIDIAN, BEER ACADEMY BALTIC PORTER Imperial Reds ARCH DINNER JACKET O'RED, FLYING MONKEYS RED ON RED
Biere De Garde OAST HOUSE, GLB+AMSTERDAM EZRA
Doppelbock BARN DOOR MONSTER MASH, RAILWAY CITY SHAM BOCK, CAMERONS DEVIATOR
Old Ale GRANITE PECULIAR, MUSKOKA HARVEST, BEAU'S GILGAMESH, AMSTERDAM VICAR'S VICE
Scotch Ale HIGHLANDER

Just from what I have personally tried in past year. Others probably have more.

matt7215 · Post by **matt7215** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 12:46 pm

midlife crisis wrote:
matt7215 wrote:
Porter GLB ROBUST, GLB PLAIN, GLB HARRY PORTER
Belgian Strong Dark
Belgian Strong Golden AUDREY HOPBURN, OAST HOUSE, FORKED RIVER
Belgian Dubbel, Triple, Quad BLOCK 3 DEAD NOW DUBBEL, FORKED RIVER BELGIAN DUBBEL
Barley Wine BUSH PILOT, FORKED RIVER VINDICATION, GRANITE, MILL STREET, AMSTERDAM ADVENTURE SERIES
American Strong Ales Imperial Browns, Imperial Porter CAMERONS OBSIDIAN, BEER ACADEMY BALTIC PORTER Imperial Reds ARCH DINNER JACKET O'RED, FLYING MONKEYS RED ON RED
Biere De Garde OAST HOUSE, GLB+AMSTERDAM EZRA
Doppelbock BARN DOOR MONSTER MASH, RAILWAY CITY SHAM BOCK, CAMERONS DEVIATOR
Old Ale GRANITE PECULIAR, MUSKOKA HARVEST, BEAU'S GILGAMESH, AMSTERDAM VICAR'S VICE
Scotch Ale HIGHLANDER
Just from what I have personally tried in past year. Others probably have more.

you win, we have it great

sprague11 · Post by **sprague11** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:08 pm

midlife crisis wrote:
matt7215 wrote:
Porter GLB ROBUST, GLB PLAIN, GLB HARRY PORTER
Belgian Strong Dark
Belgian Strong Golden AUDREY HOPBURN, OAST HOUSE, FORKED RIVER
Belgian Dubbel, Triple, Quad BLOCK 3 DEAD NOW DUBBEL, FORKED RIVER BELGIAN DUBBEL
Barley Wine BUSH PILOT, FORKED RIVER VINDICATION, GRANITE, MILL STREET, AMSTERDAM ADVENTURE SERIES
American Strong Ales Imperial Browns, Imperial Porter CAMERONS OBSIDIAN, BEER ACADEMY BALTIC PORTER Imperial Reds ARCH DINNER JACKET O'RED, FLYING MONKEYS RED ON RED
Biere De Garde OAST HOUSE, GLB+AMSTERDAM EZRA
Doppelbock BARN DOOR MONSTER MASH, RAILWAY CITY SHAM BOCK, CAMERONS DEVIATOR
Old Ale GRANITE PECULIAR, MUSKOKA HARVEST, BEAU'S GILGAMESH, AMSTERDAM VICAR'S VICE
Scotch Ale HIGHLANDER
Just from what I have personally tried in past year. Others probably have more.

And how many of thse would you consider world class for their style?

atomeyes · Post by **atomeyes** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:37 pm

matt7215 wrote:
midlife crisis wrote:
matt7215 wrote:
Porter GLB ROBUST, GLB PLAIN, GLB HARRY PORTER
Belgian Strong Dark
Belgian Strong Golden AUDREY HOPBURN, OAST HOUSE, FORKED RIVER
Belgian Dubbel, Triple, Quad BLOCK 3 DEAD NOW DUBBEL, FORKED RIVER BELGIAN DUBBEL
Barley Wine BUSH PILOT, FORKED RIVER VINDICATION, GRANITE, MILL STREET, AMSTERDAM ADVENTURE SERIES
American Strong Ales Imperial Browns, Imperial Porter CAMERONS OBSIDIAN, BEER ACADEMY BALTIC PORTER Imperial Reds ARCH DINNER JACKET O'RED, FLYING MONKEYS RED ON RED
Biere De Garde OAST HOUSE, GLB+AMSTERDAM EZRA
Doppelbock BARN DOOR MONSTER MASH, RAILWAY CITY SHAM BOCK, CAMERONS DEVIATOR
Old Ale GRANITE PECULIAR, MUSKOKA HARVEST, BEAU'S GILGAMESH, AMSTERDAM VICAR'S VICE
Scotch Ale HIGHLANDER
Just from what I have personally tried in past year. Others probably have more.
you win, we have it great

i think i got beer shit AND heartburn after reading that list.

think that kind of proved my initial point.

TheSevenDuffs · Post by **TheSevenDuffs** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:58 pm

sprague11 wrote:
midlife crisis wrote:
matt7215 wrote:
Porter GLB ROBUST, GLB PLAIN, GLB HARRY PORTER
Belgian Strong Dark
Belgian Strong Golden AUDREY HOPBURN, OAST HOUSE, FORKED RIVER
Belgian Dubbel, Triple, Quad BLOCK 3 DEAD NOW DUBBEL, FORKED RIVER BELGIAN DUBBEL
Barley Wine BUSH PILOT, FORKED RIVER VINDICATION, GRANITE, MILL STREET, AMSTERDAM ADVENTURE SERIES
American Strong Ales Imperial Browns, Imperial Porter CAMERONS OBSIDIAN, BEER ACADEMY BALTIC PORTER Imperial Reds ARCH DINNER JACKET O'RED, FLYING MONKEYS RED ON RED
Biere De Garde OAST HOUSE, GLB+AMSTERDAM EZRA
Doppelbock BARN DOOR MONSTER MASH, RAILWAY CITY SHAM BOCK, CAMERONS DEVIATOR
Old Ale GRANITE PECULIAR, MUSKOKA HARVEST, BEAU'S GILGAMESH, AMSTERDAM VICAR'S VICE
Scotch Ale HIGHLANDER
Just from what I have personally tried in past year. Others probably have more.
And how many of thse would you consider world class for their style?

Zero, give or take.

midlife crisis · Post by **midlife crisis** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:23 pm

I didn't say any of them were world class. The point being made was that Ontario brewers are overlooking all sorts of desirable styles, which is patently false. Having said that, I did a head-to-head of GLB Robust Porter and Founders Porter when it was released here, and GLB was better IMO, to take one example.

Of course California has more "world class" beers than Ontario - it is the size of all of Canada. Michigan, New York, etc? I don't see it. We are at least now brewing beers that are solidly in the conversation. Not to mention the 30-ish states that Ontario easily outclasses.

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:36 pm

atomeyes wrote:
matt7215 wrote:
midlife crisis wrote: Just from what I have personally tried in past year. Others probably have more.
you win, we have it great
i think i got beer shit AND heartburn after reading that list.

think that kind of proved my initial point.

I thought your original point was our beer is boring and lacked diversity, not that the quality wasn't up to snuff?

Kel Varnsen · Post by **Kel Varnsen** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:22 pm

midlife crisis wrote: Of course California has more "world class" beers than Ontario - it is the size of all of Canada. Michigan, New York, etc? I don't see it. We are at least now brewing beers that are solidly in the conversation. Not to mention the 30-ish states that Ontario easily outclasses.

Not only is California the size of all of Canada, but you can drive from one end of the state to the other in around 12 hours. Just think about what that does for distribution. Imagine if any brewer in Ontario could deliver to the entire population of Canada in a day's worth of driving. You can't even get from one end of Ontario to the other in 12 hours.

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:24 pm

Kel Varnsen wrote:
midlife crisis wrote: Of course California has more "world class" beers than Ontario - it is the size of all of Canada. Michigan, New York, etc? I don't see it. We are at least now brewing beers that are solidly in the conversation. Not to mention the 30-ish states that Ontario easily outclasses.
Not only is California the size of all of Canada, but you can drive from one end of the state to the other in around 12 hours. Just think about what that does for distribution. Imagine if any brewer in Ontario could deliver to the entire population of Canada in a day's worth of driving. You can't even get from one end of Ontario to the other in 12 hours.

You can get through all the parts where anyone lives in 12 hours. Apologies to anyone living in Sudbury or Thunder Bay.

atomeyes · Post by **atomeyes** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 11:34 pm

Craig wrote: I thought your original point was our beer is boring and lacked diversity, not that the quality wasn't up to snuff?

idunno. it was a point that i either made or thought about making at some point.
i think.

Belgian · Post by **Belgian** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 11:42 pm

Craig wrote:
atomeyes wrote: i think i got beer shit AND heartburn after reading that list.

think that kind of proved my initial point.
I thought your original point was our beer is boring and lacked diversity, not that the quality wasn't up to snuff?

No, his point is that Ontario sucks and all our brewers should be flogged with rubber chickens but he doesn't want to move anyplace better.

Belgian · Post by **Belgian** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 11:45 pm

matt7215 wrote:you win, we have it great

^ What I like with matt is the sarcasm is not something you have to read between the lines.