How profitable is a semi-successful craft brewery?

[markaberrant]

This is a very humorous thread.

I agree. Have anything else to add?

When I wrote that negative comment about guys brewing a homebrew kit and suddenly thinking they can open a brewery, there was a fair bit of sarcasm in my tone. However, this morning I was reading another forum, and there was a guy asking all of these questions about getting permits, finding a property, when to hire a lawyer and an accountant, etc. Made it sound like he was pretty much ready to pull the trigger, just looking for some advice on what order to do all these things in. He was also especially ticked that established breweries wouldn't give him much help, and were in fact quite rude to him. By the end of the thread, it was revealed the guy is 24 years old, has no money (not even enough to go to brewing school according to him), and has only been making beer from extract on his stovetop for the past 6 months or so.

So yeah, I ain't making this shit up.

[TheSevenDuffs]

This is a very humorous thread.

I agree. Have anything else to add?

When I wrote that negative comment about guys brewing a homebrew kit and suddenly thinking they can open a brewery, there was a fair bit of sarcasm in my tone. However, this morning I was reading another forum, and there was a guy asking all of these questions about getting permits, finding a property, when to hire a lawyer and an accountant, etc. Made it sound like he was pretty much ready to pull the trigger, just looking for some advice on what order to do all these things in. He was also especially ticked that established breweries wouldn't give him much help, and were in fact quite rude to him. By the end of the thread, it was revealed the guy is 24 years old, has no money (not even enough to go to brewing school according to him), and has only been making beer from extract on his stovetop for the past 6 months or so.

So yeah, I ain't making this shit up.

That is pretty funny.

[atomeyes]

Do you want to brew or run a business?

neither.

i'm just curious about the business of brewing. there enough microbreweries out there that someone must be making a buck. i was wondering out loud if its a lucrative career option or not.

[TheSevenDuffs]

Do you want to brew or run a business?

neither.

i'm just curious about the business of brewing. there enough microbreweries out there that someone must be making a buck. i was wondering out loud if its a lucrative career option or not.

One brewery who definitely made a buck was Goose Island.

[icemachine]

Do you want to brew or run a business?

neither.

i'm just curious about the business of brewing. there enough microbreweries out there that someone must be making a buck. i was wondering out loud if its a lucrative career option or not.

One brewery who definitely made a buck was Goose Island.

Took GI 23 years to get there and they saw a lot of contemporary's fall by the roadside

[JasonTremblay]

i'm just curious about the business of brewing. there enough microbreweries out there that someone must be making a buck. i was wondering out loud if its a lucrative career option or not.

No, for most brewers, it isn't.

They do it 'cause they like beer. Like working with their hands. And, well, let's face it, you can scratch an awful lot of itches by being a brewer (electronics, welding, plumbing, construction, chemistry, biology, lab work, fluid dynamics, refrigeration, working the brewhouse, you name it).

Seriously.

The American Brewers Association even publishes average salaries for different brewing positions, broken down by size and type of brewery. If you're really curious.

[BrausBackinTown]

Starting as a brew pub seems to make much more financial sense, since you can start making good money right away.

I am not sure how starting 2 risky business ventures (a restaurant and a brewery) would make more financial sense.

you're right, all the upstarts in Ontario have it wrong - bellwoods, junction, indie ale house, sawdust city, Kensington - they didn't do any research and those dingbats are now operating TWO risky businesses, instead of one impossible one! you should call them to impart your financial advice.

With our strict liquor laws in Ontario, brew pub/tied house or gipsy brewing are the only two ways to make a real go of it at first. Otherwise, you're spending millions of dollars to set up a huge stand alone brewery that makes beer that you can either a) only sell at the brewery store or to pubs (won't make your money back) or b) make enough to sell through the lcbo or beer store which is just idiotic to do until you've built up enough of a demand to be able to sell a whole whack of product.

And mentioning a nanobrewer I think is outside of the spirit of the question. He's asking if you can make money as a brewer. Not as a nanobrewer, you can't, unless you own barvolo (hey, there's that brew pub/tied house theme again!).


Of course it's risky, it's ALL risky, but that's the fun of opening your own business, right. You do it because you love it, and the money is secondary. You certainly don't do it to get rich, and I don't think the question was asking if you can get rich, it's asking if you can make a profit. The answer is yes, of course, if you're good at it, and you love it.

The end, I'm off do drink some IPAs. as bar volo. which nanobrews. and is a pub.

[markaberrant]

Chill out, it was a free form discussion. Imagine that, a thread on the internet that strayed from the original post.

My comments on brewpubs, nanos etc were not solely based on the Ontario market. My comments were not implying breweries, brewpubs, etc cannot be successful. You can most certainly make a go of it, BUT YOU NEED ENOUGH CAPITAL AND SOME FUCKING BUSINESS SENSE.

How is that for some financial advice?

[Derek]

you're right, all the upstarts in Ontario have it wrong - bellwoods, junction, indie ale house, sawdust city, Kensington - they didn't do any research and those dingbats are now operating TWO risky businesses, instead of one impossible one! you should call them to impart your financial advice.

I REALLY hope they do well. Toronto was SERIOUSLY lacking in brewpubs. I'd love to see artisanal brewing on this scale ALL over the place. Back to the basics, brewing more like a chef than a factory worker.

Toronto certainly has the population, but I'm still not sure they have the market. If I had the capital, I wouldn't take the risk.

I'm surprised there isn't more contract brewing in the provinces with privatized sales... but I'm not sure that's a great option in Onterrible either.

[atomeyes]

meanwhile, Volo has a 3-day IPA event, and it opened at 2 PM today. I assume they are quite full. they were packed for the Beau's takeover and i shudder to think what things will look like for Funk Night and DDC takeover this year.

Things are moving along nicely. you can't force everyone to drink good beer (i witnessed this first hand in Belgium. insane to see how many people were drinking Jupiler and other crap)

[BrausBackinTown]

you're right, all the upstarts in Ontario have it wrong - bellwoods, junction, indie ale house, sawdust city, Kensington - they didn't do any research and those dingbats are now operating TWO risky businesses, instead of one impossible one! you should call them to impart your financial advice.

I REALLY hope they do well. Toronto was SERIOUSLY lacking in brewpubs. I'd love to see artisanal brewing on this scale ALL over the place. Back to the basics, brewing more like a chef than a factory worker.

Toronto certainly has the population, but I'm still not sure they have the market. If I had the capital, I wouldn't take the risk.

I'm surprised there isn't more contract brewing in the provinces with privatized sales... but I'm not sure that's a great option in Onterrible either.

me too. and I'm particularly optimistic that the review of liquor laws will help ease some of the restrictions and make things a lot easier for these guys to make a good go at it. I know firsthand (from work) how hard it can be to make change in policy, and I hope there are folks involved here on the craft beer side who know about more than just brewing, and who can help effectively lobby for much needed reform.

[AlanB]

Like any other start-up venture, you need a product, a target demographic, a plan to convince your target demographic to consume your product, a marketplace where your target demographic can reach you but where you won't be overwhelmed by already-existing competition, and a way to deliver your product to your target demographic (LCBO, TBS, brewpub).

The road is littered with the wrecks of brewpubs and breweries that had a great product, but had no clear vision of the rest of the above formula.

Not saying every successful brewery/brewpub started with all of the above, but lack of marketing research and a viable plan makes the road to success a lot steeper.