The Rhino's Controversy

[chris_schryer]

Late joiner, but I'll throw in my two cents. It sucks that this happened to the Rhino. They, sadly, will be the example to live by. If a party of cowboys and indians comes into Castro's, nobody will flinch before saying "Yeah, you either need to ditch those costumes or leave". While I agree that the costumes stereotype First Nations in a negative way, this wouldn't have even blipped the radar this time last year. But the Idle No More movement has educated, mobilized and (in some cases) over-senstized all things First Nations. Note that most of the actual First Nations people who were involved talk about how they calmly discussed their concerns with the party goers and staff and resolved the conflict. It's everybody else who is shouting racism and judgement. There is no doubt that the costumes were in poor taste in our current political situation, but the ongoing press coverage is driven by nothing else other than a need to sensationalize something because it's "hot". And it's being supported by people desperate to look like the care, but who don't actually have any engagement in the issues other than doing this and showing up at a round-dance flash-mod (if it fits their schedule and is near a starbucks; it IS cold out there).

Sucks for the Rhino. If you're in the hood, pop in for a pint, and encourage other sane people to do so as well.

[JeffPorter]

Late joiner, but I'll throw in my two cents. It sucks that this happened to the Rhino. They, sadly, will be the example to live by. If a party of cowboys and indians comes into Castro's, nobody will flinch before saying "Yeah, you either need to ditch those costumes or leave". While I agree that the costumes stereotype First Nations in a negative way, this wouldn't have even blipped the radar this time last year. But the Idle No More movement has educated, mobilized and (in some cases) over-senstized all things First Nations. Note that most of the actual First Nations people who were involved talk about how they calmly discussed their concerns with the party goers and staff and resolved the conflict. It's everybody else who is shouting racism and judgement. There is no doubt that the costumes were in poor taste in our current political situation, but the ongoing press coverage is driven by nothing else other than a need to sensationalize something because it's "hot". And it's being supported by people desperate to look like the care, but who don't actually have any engagement in the issues other than doing this and showing up at a round-dance flash-mod (if it fits their schedule and is near a starbucks; it IS cold out there).

Sucks for the Rhino. If you're in the hood, pop in for a pint, and encourage other sane people to do so as well.

What Chris, said...times a hundred. The incident itself was benign and mostly resolved that evening.

For me, the most important point in ALL of this, is that someone pointed out to someone else that they they thought their actions were insensitive to say the least, and complicit in racism at worst. And that someone else, basically said, "oh, crap! I'm sorry, I'll take this off right away."

That's, well...education...and, frankly, as Canadian a conflict as I ever heard.

And as I've said before, the only thing that the Rhino could've done is ask them to remove the costumes as it may threaten others safely. They didn't. Maybe they should've. But, again...Rhino on a Saturday night...

So maybe to sum up:

-The act of putting on indian "blackface" - it's definitely ignorant and maybe (however, unknowingly) racist, particularly in today's context but...

-That does not make YOU an automatic "racist", in the fairytale Hitler sense of only racist people have nazi tattoos or lots and lots of bed sheets, but...and they can never learn from experiences and other cultures.

Two more things I will say (mostly to get off my chest):

1) I hate it when people say "I didn't mean to be racist" when describing events like these. No I'm sure you didn't but I also hope that this was also an experience has taught you something.

2) Chris from the Rhino is not getting nearly enough credit for the letter he wrote. Now refers to his post as "sort of apologetic" which couldn't be more wrong. To me, the apology (both of them in the letter) were very genuine, and not conditional or "passive" at all. Give Chris and the Rhino the credit they deserve with this!

[Derek]

One final article.
the media let it snowball and this article depicts what apparently happened.
the problem?
they don't really do anything to make the Rhino look any better.

http://www.nowtoronto.com/daily/story.c ... ent=191032

One of the previous articles left me with the impression that "Mr. $30 Cab" was more of an activist with an axe to grind. This "Now" interview revealed that he was half Cree, and he seemed very reasonable.

[Tapsucker]

One other question. Suppose this was a private party at a private residence. Would anything be learned, or even noticed? Would an upstanding establishment in it's community have had it's reputation soiled?

I think we all agree the theme was wrong, and we all agree the Rhino is above this, but it seams the wrong people (maybe even the ignorant participants in this party) are the target. Not to diminish the message, but fixing a serious cultural problem doesn't always happen by knee jerk demonizing.

[Bytowner]

One other question. Suppose this was a private party at a private residence. Would anything be learned, or even noticed? Would an upstanding establishment in it's community have had it's reputation soiled?

I think we all agree the theme was wrong, and we all agree the Rhino is above this, but it seams the wrong people (maybe even the ignorant participants in this party) are the target. Not to diminish the message, but fixing a serious cultural problem doesn't always happen by knee jerk demonizing.

No, sorry, I tried to leave this alone, but there are a lot of folks here saying "well, we can all agree this was wrong and that these people were possibly racist but at least incredibly stupid" despite the fact that there are a couple of us here who most definitely don't agree with that. Would I dress up as an "Indian" and head out on the town? No. But I'm not going to call someone else ignorant because they apparently don't buy-in to a pop history of North American history, it takes more than a professor going full Godwin for me to start saying horrible things about probably decent people because they were carrying around little axes.

[A]

-The act of putting on indian "blackface" - it's definitely ignorant and maybe (however, unknowingly) racist, particularly in today's context but...

The costume of dressing up like an indian, just because that includes warpaint, does not *in any way* equate to being indian "blackface". Blackface is offensive because of the historical context of applying the makeup. There is no equivalent for native north americans.

[Derek]

But I'm not going to call someone else ignorant because they apparently don't buy-in to a pop history of North American history, it takes more than a professor going full Godwin for me to start saying horrible things about probably decent people because they were carrying around little axes.

The Indian Residential School system alone meets the UN's definition of genocide:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nat ... cle547129/

So technically, I don't think you can call Godwin's law.

[boney]

-The act of putting on indian "blackface" - it's definitely ignorant and maybe (however, unknowingly) racist, particularly in today's context but...

The costume of dressing up like an indian, just because that includes warpaint, does not *in any way* equate to being indian "blackface". Blackface is offensive because of the historical context of applying the makeup. There is no equivalent for native north americans.

I think many could actually argue that such context does exist. However, unless you are the enthnic minority in question you can't say what is equivalent, offensive, unoffensive to them etc. That's not your narrative to tell. Just sayin' (and really, not mine either)

Derek, you beat me to it

Look guys, I think we'll probably have to agree to disagree. These are complex issues and opinions that wont get settled in a internet beer board. I think despite Cass's best efforts to keep the discussion on topic, it's gotten pretty far off course. Plus, I think lively topics like this are made for sharing a few pints at the pub. That said, if anyone ever wants to sit down and shoot the shit over our collective North American history and how it shaped our current socio-political-economic climate, I'm game. Shoot me a message whenever your in Hammertown.

Support the Rhino.

[JeffPorter]

We should have pints over at the Rhino!

[Tapsucker]

As a white guy that got here 40 years ago, my opinion is correct and the only one that counts. I know more about the native experience than even they do.

+1 for the pint.