Why don't brewery taprooms stay open late?

[Cass]

A question I've pondered from time to time, in Toronto and elsewhere...why don't brewery taprooms stay open late?

There's been many articles in beer media over the years about how taprooms are compete directly with beer bars, leading a number of notable bars to close. But fundamentally they aren't the same and one key difference is a bar is usually reliable for a late night drink, but a taproom isn't.

Is it a revenue/cost/profit issue during late hours? Staffing? Avoiding late night intoxication issues? Or wanting to create a different beer experience?

I'm not of the age where I go out until 2am anymore, but as I've embarked on some of my A Quick Beer trips, I find myself having to plan around closing hours of breweries, and older school pubs or bars get pushed into the night.

Always been curious as to why most taprooms haven't adopted this aspect of the drinking experience.

[matt7215]

Is it a revenue/cost/profit issue during late hours? Staffing? Avoiding late night intoxication issues?

^this^

[seangm]

My thought is that it's especially this part: "Avoiding late night intoxication issues?"

The general vibe I get from most breweries and their taproom spaces is that they are more responsible, community oriented; often family friendly even. Late night drinking somewhat goes against that ethos. There's also the issue that a lot of breweries are in less accessible areas, industrial parks and whatnot, so it could be a social responsibility thing as they are often car-dependent locations. Staff safety too, having staff working in an isolated area late at night with intoxicated guests could be problematic.

Of course there are lots of breweries in the city proper where an industrial location wouldn't be a factor, so I would refer back to my original thought. Speculative of course, but that's the general sense I get, that most breweries specifically wouldn't want to cater to the late drinking, potentially rowdier crowd.

[JerCraigs]

I would imagine for some of the smaller ones it's partly a case of a limited number of staff only wanting to work a certain number of hours per week, combined with all the other things you have suggested.

[Tapsucker]

Counterpoint. Why don't more beers bars open earlier? Especially ones that could be serving lunch.

[matt7215]

My thought is that it's especially this part: "Avoiding late night intoxication issues?"

The general vibe I get from most breweries and their taproom spaces is that they are more responsible, community oriented; often family friendly even. Late night drinking somewhat goes against that ethos. There's also the issue that a lot of breweries are in less accessible areas, industrial parks and whatnot, so it could be a social responsibility thing as they are often car-dependent locations. Staff safety too, having staff working in an isolated area late at night with intoxicated guests could be problematic.

Of course there are lots of breweries in the city proper where an industrial location wouldn't be a factor, so I would refer back to my original thought. Speculative of course, but that's the general sense I get, that most breweries specifically wouldn't want to cater to the late drinking, potentially rowdier crowd.

this is spot on

[matt7215]

I would imagine for some of the smaller ones it's partly a case of a limited number of staff only wanting to work a certain number of hours per week, combined with all the other things you have suggested.

100% true

[matt7215]

Counterpoint. Why don't more beers bars open earlier? Especially ones that could be serving lunch.

all the same reasons, businesses need to make money, if there was money to be made they would do it, if they would lose money then they dont do it

[Cass]

more responsible, community oriented; often family friendly even. Late night drinking somewhat goes against that ethos.

I agree with your analysis, but these things can co-exist. A bar certainly can be friendly during the day and inviting at night without being irresponsible or lacking in community spirit. But I agree that taprooms tend to push out these kind of values a bit more.

Obviously there's a lot of factors at play, but it's also simply what has become generally acceptable in beer culture. I interviewed an owner of a Syracuse brewery last weekend for A Quick Beer and he explained that he and his wife wanted to start a hospitality business, and chose a brewery as they could close earlier than a bar or restaurant. I found that comment to be pretty peculiar for a rationale for why to open a brewery over a pub, but I guess it's a legit reason.

[Craig]

Are taprooms not open late? For example, Bellwoods is open until 1, Amsterdam Brewhouse until 12 or 2 depending on the day, Northern Maverick until 2. I'm sure there are some that don't say open too, I just checked a few randomly that I thought probably had later hours.

I think you'll definitely find a correlation between brewery location and their hours. Downtown Toronto breweries have a lot more incentive to stay open longer than a place in an industrial park.

[midlife crisis]

Could it be licensing? A true brewery tap sells only beer from its own brewery, no wine, liquor, other beer, etc. Presumably that is a different licence than a full-on pub or bar.

[Cass]

Are taprooms not open late? For example, Bellwoods is open until 1, Amsterdam Brewhouse until 12 or 2 depending on the day, Northern Maverick until 2. I'm sure there are some that don't say open too, I just checked a few randomly that I thought probably had later hours.

I think you'll definitely find a correlation between brewery location and their hours. Downtown Toronto breweries have a lot more incentive to stay open longer than a place in an industrial park.

You are absolutely right, downtown Toronto ones stay open pretty late. Can't say the same for the east side but it's well known that the east doesn't do things too late

I guess I was thinking more broadly as I've been to Pittsburgh, Chicago & Syracuse in the last number of months, and even thinking about your post about Detroit Craig. Just seems that the taprooms that I've visited/researched generally keep pretty short hours even though many seem very popular.

[MatttthewGeorge]

Breweries with tap rooms around me (KW/Guleph) and their weekend(ish) hours:
Rural Roots - 10:30pm (Thur to Sat)
Block 3 - 8pm (Thurs), 10pm (Fri), 9pm (Sat)
Elora - 11 (Thurs), 12 (Fri-Sun)
Innocente - 9pm (Thur, Fri), 5pm (Sat)
Wellington - 7pm every day
Royal City - 11pm, 12pm (Fri, Sat)
Counterpoint - 9pm (Thur to Sat)
Short Finger- 8pm (Fri, Sat)
Fixed Gear - Late (whatever that means)
Four Fathers - Late
Farm League - 10pm (Fri, Sat)
Rhythm & Brews - 12 (Fri, Sat)
Jackass - 8 (Thrus, Sat), 9 (Fri)
Wavemaker - 9 (Thur), 10 (Fri, Sat)
Willibald - 9 (Thurs to Sat)

A couple of 12's and a couple of "lates" but 8-10pm seems like the norm in these parts.
Enough to give people options if you aren't too choosey on a particular place I guess, but definitely no "2am bar" options.

[Cass]

a couple of "lates"

"Late" is one of my biggest pet peeves in the taproom world. It's not like I'd ever show up at 1:30am expecting a beer but just tell me when you close!

From my experience talking to taprooms it would take a good number of customers there to keep a place open past their intended closing. So I'm not sure what prevents these places from publishing their closing time, as they most certainly would have one.

[seangm]

more responsible, community oriented; often family friendly even. Late night drinking somewhat goes against that ethos.

I agree with your analysis, but these things can co-exist. A bar certainly can be friendly during the day and inviting at night without being irresponsible or lacking in community spirit. But I agree that taprooms tend to push out these kind of values a bit more.

Obviously there's a lot of factors at play, but it's also simply what has become generally acceptable in beer culture. I interviewed an owner of a Syracuse brewery last weekend for A Quick Beer and he explained that he and his wife wanted to start a hospitality business, and chose a brewery as they could close earlier than a bar or restaurant. I found that comment to be pretty peculiar for a rationale for why to open a brewery over a pub, but I guess it's a legit reason.

For sure, I certainly don't think everyone who drinks late is irresponsible haha.

The second part I was kind of thinking along those lines as well, in the sense that since breweries are also manufacturing operations, it makes for long days in general. Bars would typically open later, whereas by the time you're into prime drinking hours, you've likely already been open for an entire day brewing, packaging and selling your beer. With the tight labour market and cost of keeping the lights on, it's probably just preferable to close up shop a little earlier.