I was listening to 'The Good Beer Show' podcast today ( http://goodbeershow.com/ ) on my iPod, which I got for free by the way, if anyone wants to know how, check my blogor PM me... Anyway... on the show (episode 64) they were sampling two Imperial IPA's, and of course I was drooling... During the reviews of the two beers, the various samplers were comparing and contrasting these against a number of other Double/Imperial IPA's they'd tried... When I checked out the website for that Michigan Brewer's festival, every other brewer seemed to have either an IPA or an Imperial IPA...
So my question is, WHY is there so little in this segment in Ontario... Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the only TRUE Ontario IPA I think we can buy in bottles is Sgt. Major's. (I've tried the Magnottaone, and I don't think it's very good at all, I can barely remember it, but I've tried it several times and always end up disappointed, so it's probably got minimal hop aroma and flavor.)
Granite has a nice IPA, not bottled.
C'est What has Al's Cask Ale, essentially an IPA, not bottled.
Black Oak has done their Hop Bomb, possibly a Double IPA, ABSOLUTELY AMAZING! not bottled.
Keiths IPA - HA HA F'ing HA!, bottled, but not an IPA (or from Ontario)...
At least we now have a decent selection of Pale Ales:
Black Oak Pale Ale
Tankhose Ale
Niagara Falls Pale Ale
Cameron's Auburn
Wellington SPA
(don't say anything about Rickards or the new Upper Canada...)
- I'm still bitter that Dragon's Breath was taken away...
Why, oh why, doesn't any of our other great Craft Brewers launch an aggressively hopped and aggressively branded/labelled double IPA for Ontario, it would have NO COMPETITION... Think about the branding and 'cool' factor of the big hoppy beers from the US:
Arrogant Bastard Ale
Victory Hopdevil
Three Floyds Alpha King
Great Divide's TITAN and HERCULES
Think how cool a big BOMBER would look in the LCBO with some wacked-out Grizzly Bear on the label or something like that... 85 IBU's, 9% alc/vol I know Canadians are more conservative, but can't beer be fun too???
When I think about the beer that I want to bring back from the US/Premier, in my opinion, the crazy big IPA's are essentially the only beer that's worth bringing back, the only MAJOR beer segment that is literally non-existant and UNAVAILABLE in Ontario...
Looking for the original Bar Towel blog? You can find it at www.thebartowel.com.
We have a trivia question in order to register to prevent bots. If you have any issues with answering, contact us at cass@bartowel.com for help.
Introducing Light Mode! If you would like a Bar Towel social experience that isn't the traditional blue, you can now select Light Mode. Go to the User Control Panel and then Board Preferences, and select "Day Drinking" (Light Mode) from the My Board Style drop-down menu. You can always switch back to "Night Drinking" (Dark Mode). Enjoy!
We have a trivia question in order to register to prevent bots. If you have any issues with answering, contact us at cass@bartowel.com for help.
Introducing Light Mode! If you would like a Bar Towel social experience that isn't the traditional blue, you can now select Light Mode. Go to the User Control Panel and then Board Preferences, and select "Day Drinking" (Light Mode) from the My Board Style drop-down menu. You can always switch back to "Night Drinking" (Dark Mode). Enjoy!
Ontario & IPA's
Ontario & IPA's
Bored Silly? Check out my blog... http://geeksjournal.blogspot.com
-
Al of Kingston
- Posts: 277
- Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:16 pm
- Location: Kingston
- Contact:
Yes, thank you for pointing that out... I know, that's lovely for people in Kingston, and I have it when I'm in Kingston like twice a year, but that's not the point... We're talking about bottles here...Al the beerblogger wrote:Just as a FYI, Dragon's Breath is still available at the Kingston Brew Pub on tap as a pulled real ale at 6% and a pushed at 4.5% or so. Not really the same grapefruit-based paint stripper that I recalled Hart brewed on contract but still nice.
Bored Silly? Check out my blog... http://geeksjournal.blogspot.com
I am working now with some "money people" to set up my own bricks and mortar brewery in Arnprior (just west of Ottawa). If all goes to plan, it should be up and running in 18 months.
Having said that, having my own plant would free my creative juices ( I'm feeling pretty juicy right now, actually) and one of the beers on my to-do list would be a double IPA along the lines of what JWalter suggests. All of the beers I produce would be available in bottles, some at my retail store and others at the LCBO/Beer store. I agree that there is still a need for local interpretations various beer styles and I want to bring you some.
Now, if anyone has a spare million...
Having said that, having my own plant would free my creative juices ( I'm feeling pretty juicy right now, actually) and one of the beers on my to-do list would be a double IPA along the lines of what JWalter suggests. All of the beers I produce would be available in bottles, some at my retail store and others at the LCBO/Beer store. I agree that there is still a need for local interpretations various beer styles and I want to bring you some.
Now, if anyone has a spare million...
"Every day above ground is a good one."
Keep those American IPA's from getting in. Hops will ruin everything. Canadians will have too much fun.JWalter wrote:I know Canadians are more conservative, but can't beer be fun too???
Last edited by Belgian on Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
In Beerum Veritas
-
PierreBiere
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2003 7:00 pm
- Location: Oakville
You could ad Headstrong to that list, which I think is a very good pale ale.At least we now have a decent selection of Pale Ales:
Black Oak Pale Ale
Tankhose Ale
Niagara Falls Pale Ale
Cameron's Auburn
Wellington SPA
(don't say anything about Rickards or the new Upper Canada...)
- I'm still bitter that Dragon's Breath was taken away...
Perry,PRMason wrote:I am working now with some "money people" to set up my own bricks and mortar brewery in Arnprior (just west of Ottawa). If all goes to plan, it should be up and running in 18 months.
Having said that, having my own plant would free my creative juices ( I'm feeling pretty juicy right now, actually) and one of the beers on my to-do list would be a double IPA along the lines of what JWalter suggests. All of the beers I produce would be available in bottles, some at my retail store and others at the LCBO/Beer store. I agree that there is still a need for local interpretations various beer styles and I want to bring you some.
Now, if anyone has a spare million...
That is some of the best news I've heard on the "Canadian Beer Front" in a long time. No millions to help out with the launch but you can bet on my continued support once you hang your shingle.
Perry, you feeling juicy?
Maybe I should pear you up with a young brewer on the other side of the river who's just got back from Meurisse Institute in Brussels and is extra juicy. In fact, he's drenching.
PS En français, çà sonne pire encore!
LB
Maybe I should pear you up with a young brewer on the other side of the river who's just got back from Meurisse Institute in Brussels and is extra juicy. In fact, he's drenching.
PS En français, çà sonne pire encore!
LB
-
Jon Walker
- Seasoned Drinker
- Posts: 1899
- Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2001 8:00 pm
- Location: Wherever you go there you are
The answer (IMHO) to your original query regarding Ontario and the absence of assertive beer styles like IPA's, double IPA's etc...
1) Market. People here are generally afraid of beers with IBU's over 40. As a brewery if you go to the expense of making, marketing, distributing a new beer you've got to know that there's a market for it. As much as I love IPA's I'd be leery to commit to making one without doing heavy research first. Mill Street MIGHT try one as a seasonal to test the waters, Perry will try his...if the market responds then things will slowly shift. HOPEFULLY.
2) Legislation. Correct me if I'm wrong but any beer over 7% has a lot more regulatory hoops to jump through in order to secure distribution through the LCBO/BS...isn't this the case? Double IPA's, barley wines etc...? Breweries here are also taxed into the ground compared to most places in the States. The margins are tight...rolling out a new beer costs a lot and the return isn't certain. A small brewery could go under if they get too diverse in their portfolio.
3) Circumstances. This market isn't the U.S. There are sooooo many factors that hold us back in terms of brewing innovation, consumer knowledge, retail distribution, taxation, etc...Canadians, especially in this province, aren't as evolved beer wise as many of their American brethren. Sad to say but I think it's true. We live in a city of more than 3 million people and there's ONE official brewpub in the GTA. In Denver a far smaller population supports about six (plus a dozen bars with more than 20 micro taps).
It's all been said on this site before...it's the market, not the breweries that are ultimately to blame...though I would love to see more breweries trying to PUSH the market a little, I understand that the economics of brewing beer mean that innovation equates to severe financial risk which is why most of them don't bother.
1) Market. People here are generally afraid of beers with IBU's over 40. As a brewery if you go to the expense of making, marketing, distributing a new beer you've got to know that there's a market for it. As much as I love IPA's I'd be leery to commit to making one without doing heavy research first. Mill Street MIGHT try one as a seasonal to test the waters, Perry will try his...if the market responds then things will slowly shift. HOPEFULLY.
2) Legislation. Correct me if I'm wrong but any beer over 7% has a lot more regulatory hoops to jump through in order to secure distribution through the LCBO/BS...isn't this the case? Double IPA's, barley wines etc...? Breweries here are also taxed into the ground compared to most places in the States. The margins are tight...rolling out a new beer costs a lot and the return isn't certain. A small brewery could go under if they get too diverse in their portfolio.
3) Circumstances. This market isn't the U.S. There are sooooo many factors that hold us back in terms of brewing innovation, consumer knowledge, retail distribution, taxation, etc...Canadians, especially in this province, aren't as evolved beer wise as many of their American brethren. Sad to say but I think it's true. We live in a city of more than 3 million people and there's ONE official brewpub in the GTA. In Denver a far smaller population supports about six (plus a dozen bars with more than 20 micro taps).
It's all been said on this site before...it's the market, not the breweries that are ultimately to blame...though I would love to see more breweries trying to PUSH the market a little, I understand that the economics of brewing beer mean that innovation equates to severe financial risk which is why most of them don't bother.
Jon, I think all of those reasons are cop-outs, quite frankly. Your average US consumer is no more or less enthustiastic than we are up here. Its a niche market in both cases.
The difference is all in the US entrepreneurial spirit of business, as opposed to the canadian play-it-safe attitude.
Sorry for the stereotyping, but its true. Its up to breweries up here to *build* the market by making good product, finding ways to sell it, and taking chances to differentiate themselves.
The difference is all in the US entrepreneurial spirit of business, as opposed to the canadian play-it-safe attitude.
Sorry for the stereotyping, but its true. Its up to breweries up here to *build* the market by making good product, finding ways to sell it, and taking chances to differentiate themselves.