Dogfish Head 60 MInute IPA

Manul · Post by **Manul** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:38 am

I'm not sure what exactly is going on with these LCBO buyers. I had a long discussion with one of them about a month ago regarding private ordering from USA. He actually placed an Bigfoot order for me (hasn't arrived yet but based on my last year experience I’m optimistic). It looks like SN is a happy case and if you really want to order something through private ordering SN and Anchor are safe bets. As for the rest of them US micros - so far no luck (at least not for me). I keep on wondering though how Volo's got so many of them in stock and my quotations requests for the same beers have been rejected. I'll figure out one day.... I actually talked to the guys at Great Divide and they said they will not bother for low number of cases (their policy is min 15 but I think they are willing to drop that to 6). Unfortunately LCBO buyers don't let them know how many cases you are interested in because the quotation process is based on one case. So the guys in US will kindly decline even though the actual order might be large enough to raise their interest. And then comes the shipping costs. If there is no large LCBO shipment from the area you will pay an arm and a leg for that good American beer.
I don't think it's the buyers' fault (some of these guys seem to be really well intended), it's the LCBO monopoly that is the problem. Unless this will change or one of the executives - probably most of them wine connoisseurs - happens to be a beer geek, things will not improve.

tupalev · Post by **tupalev** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:44 am

I keep on wondering though how Volo's got so many of them

If I had to guess, it is because Ralph took the time to make personal contacts with these guys at various American beer festivals. And was persistent. If they can put a face to a name, then maybe they don't mind going through the hassle of a small order to a good beer bar in Toronto. But he pays for them, that is for sure, as most are not cheap and I don't think his mark ups are that high. Just my pure speculating 2 cents.

JerCraigs · Post by **JerCraigs** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:54 am

Manul wrote:I there is no large LCBO shipment from the area you will pay an arm and a leg for that good American beer.

I have received quotes for stuff in California that is way better than stuff from BC which is interesting.

Manul · Post by **Manul** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:15 am

Yup, California = lots of wine shipments = cheap beer freight.

GregClow · Post by **GregClow** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:43 am

tupalev wrote:
I keep on wondering though how Volo's got so many of them
If I had to guess, it is because Ralph took the time to make personal contacts with these guys at various American beer festivals. And was persistent. If they can put a face to a name, then maybe they don't mind going through the hassle of a small order to a good beer bar in Toronto.

Not to mention that he is usually ordering more than a single person would generally want. In the case of Hair Of The Dog, they would only ship a minimum of 40 cases, so he brought in 10 of each of the 4 beers. A lot of breweries may be willing to do these sort of orders, but can't be bothered with 1 or 2 case orders.

And yes, as Jeff said, he is paying a helluvalot for some of these. Even at the $8.95 to $10.95 price point he is charging for the HOTD beers, his profit margin is very, very slim.

esprit · Post by **esprit** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:24 am

The Director of the Beers & Special Markets Unit is Kate Mallett-Thomas 416-365-2698, the Category Manager for Beer is David Cacciottolo david.cacciottolo@lcbo.com. 416-365-5889 and reporting to him is the Product Manager, Kathy Messersmith kathy.messersmith@lcbo.com. 416-365-5879.

Beer Geek · Post by **Beer Geek** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:56 am

esprit wrote:The Director of the Beers & Special Markets Unit is Kate Mallett-Thomas, the Category Manager for Beer is David Cacciottolo and reporting to him is the Product Manager, Kathy Messersmith

That’s interesting! Now PLEASE don’t get me wrong, I have absolutely NO problem with women in high management position, but it could be a reason why there is a lack of interest regarding the beer side of the LCBO’s business, more specifically the seasonal releases. I’m not trying to paint a picture with one brush as I know there are lots of women who enjoy good beer, but on the norm they are more interested in wine and alcopops which the LCBO seems to be flooded with these days. I think you really need to have a passion or at least a good understand of what makes Great beer Great, and if the LCBO management people have no personal interest in that side of the business (male or female), then it will never be run properly. Just like I would never be able to run the alcopop side of the business, I have absolutely no interest in it! It will be interesting to see if Bartowel folks are able to meet with them and find out their true interest in great beer is.

dhurtubise · Post by **dhurtubise** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:04 pm

JWalter wrote:They'd probably get flamed out like Matthew Letki, (a former brewer at Steamwhistle who sadly came on here and got attacked and never came back...) the result of which terminates the conversation and eliminates the possibility for arriving at an improved understanding.

Has Matt left Steamwhistle? I was not aware of this. I recently ordered a pint at the Winking Judge and could barely finish it, due to some pretty high level green apple (acetyl aldehyde) off flavours. I thought it was due to poor handling of the product by the jolly, well loved and "cellarbrated" cellar master....

I had been very happy with the product over the last couple of years, although i rarely consumed it.

Al of Kingston · Post by **Al of Kingston** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:37 pm

In terms of lobbying in a friendly way for better LCBO relations, would it be a difficult matter to establish criteria for special orders, establish more likely sources like was mentioned about California and also do some collective purchasing through this web site? It strikes me that the Opimian Society in its early form did for wine in Canada what we are complaining is not being done for beer. Maybe all that needs creating is a copycat model for fine beer.

esprit · Post by **esprit** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:14 pm

Get real people, passion for beer is not an issue when hiring/promoting people at the LCBO. ..delivering maximum profit in a category is the issue. There are no beer geeks in the LCBO's Beers & Special Markets division 'cause if there were, the division would be bankrupt...bring on that new Boznian-Herzegovinian lager!!!!

esprit · Post by **esprit** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:17 pm

Manul, you did not speak to an LCBO "buyer" as these "buyers" have nothing to do with Private Orders. You spoke to a clerk in Specialty Services who will try to order anything you ask for as is their mandate so if you want fermented Yak piss from Mongolia, they'll try to source it and get you a price but they are not "buyers" and have nothing to do with what ends up on the shelves of LCBO stores.

JWalter · Post by **JWalter** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:50 pm

Esprit - Thanks for the info, I'll take a stab at getting in touch with them and let you all know what comes back!

JWalter · Post by **JWalter** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:51 pm

Al the beerblogger wrote:In terms of lobbying in a friendly way for better LCBO relations, would it be a difficult matter to establish criteria for special orders, establish more likely sources like was mentioned about California and also do some collective purchasing through this web site? It strikes me that the Opimian Society in its early form did for wine in Canada what we are complaining is not being done for beer. Maybe all that needs creating is a copycat model for fine beer.

I like that train of thought and I think it's reasonable to assume that a model like that worked to improve access to fine wines could potentially work to improve access to fine beer...

TrueBeer · Post by **TrueBeer** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:02 pm

It is my understanding, esprit correct me if I am wrong, that the LCBO doesn't go out on its own and purchase beer. The beer has to be submitted by the agents. So if the agents provide crap beer for a product call or the same thing year after year that is the extent of the selection available to choose from. Also each of the categories is managed separately, each given a target sales figure which they must attain for the year if not the category is held accountable for not making it's sales target. The comment above from "Beer Geek" that about women show the ignorance of the commentator. I know many women who know a great deal about beer styles and taste profiles associated with beer. I am fairly certain that the LCBO buyer fits that profile.

Maybe you've just not met the right girl..... I also doubt that they would ever meet with the members as most of the comments slag their ability to do their jobs.

Beer Geek · Post by **Beer Geek** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 8:42 am

TrueBeer wrote:It is my understanding, esprit correct me if I am wrong, that the LCBO doesn't go out on its own and purchase beer. The beer has to be submitted by the agents. So if the agents provide crap beer for a product call or the same thing year after year that is the extent of the selection available to choose from.

Obviously you don’t read the posts in this forum very carefully!!

If you’ve ready any of Esprit’s posts you would know that he has been trying for years to bring in more great beer, but for the most part the LCBO keeps turning him down. I would not blame the agents on this problem as the LCBO always has the final say.

The comment above from "Beer Geek" that about women show the ignorance of the commentator. I know many women who know a great deal about beer styles and taste profiles associated with beer.

As for your comment regarding my post about women and beer, you once again have not read the post very carefully and therefore not worth any further discussion.

I am fairly certain that the LCBO buyer fits that profile.

Their track record prove that they don’t.

Maybe you've just not met the right girl.....

I don’t appreciate people taking shots at my wife in a public forum, especial people I have never met or who have never met my wife!!