Steve Beaumont wrote:Apolgies for getting to this thread late, but I just can't resist wading into a style debate. With regards to the northern German pilsner issue, surely Lowenbrau, a beer still brewed in the heart of Munich, qualifies as a helles and not a pils. And as for there being no BJCP guidelines for continental pilsner, the single most popular and prominent beer style in Europe, and their continental equivalent of our North American lager, I have to say that demonstrates more the failing of the BJCP than it does the state of European brewing. To class Becks as a German-style pils is like saying Bass is a textbook British pale ale -- at one point in time, yes, it was, but it hasn't been for quite a while.
Let the debate continue...
Common Stephen,
You cannot take a pot shot at the BJCP and then generalize with it to try and substatiate you "loose" claims about beer styles you don't seem all that adroit with in the first place. As even you said in your post, the north american lager is a close cousin to what is often called a continental lager - and there is some overlap with the german pilsners as well within that category. The BJCP had discussed adding the continental pils as a catagory in last year's revamp but found that stylistically, they were already well represented within the two aformentionned styles.
As for Lowenbrau, which is close enough to warsteiner in it's profile that it would be difficult to describe any substatial difference between the two, has to fall in the same category. So what are they Stephen, are they Helles or are they Pils. Be careful here, because you tried to substiate your helles claim only on the fact that it's brewed in Munich - which is a very fallacious argument. Many pilsners are brewed in Munich despite the fact that Helles was originally brewed there and many helles are brewed outside Munich as well. Helles tend to be more malty and - display the munich malt background which is absent or faint in Lowebrau. Lowenbrau is a Pils. Becks is also a pilsner - what category would you suggest if falls under if you don't agree.
Same for Bass. If it is not a British Pale Ale, in what category would you suggest it falls under..... you got me.
I think your understanding of beer styles is much too narrow in some categories and too vague in others - I can remember your claim that the Flemish Reds and Oud Bruins are arguably the same. This leaves me to believe that you just don't understand the differences - the most obvious being the use of caramel malts in the Oud Bruins which is totally absent in the Reds. This does show up in the flavour profile you know. Perhaps you are losing yourself within the pilsners as well?
Sorry about the rant but it's one thing to be wrongly corrected by another within the amateur brewing community, but I don't expect from someone who somehow seems to have been (or self?) appointed as the spokesperson of Canadian beerophiles. I think you write beautifully (stylistically) but that your content and opinions are sometimes lacking and, as I don't agree with what you wrote in your post, I find myself constantly disagreeing with what you write elsewhere as well.
