Following up on this thread, I went to the Ontario Craft Brewers website today and found that the main page says there are now 30 members - up from the 26 mentioned on the site yesterday, and the 24 the group had listed just last week.
Going deeper into the site, I found that there are actually 31 members now. By process of elimination, it looks like these are the newest members:
Beau's
Better Bitters (Nickel Brook)
Glenora Springs
MacLean's (new name for F&M?)
Old Credit
Scotch Irish
Taps
And for those who might be interested, here are the original 24 members (well, there were originally 25, but Steam Whistle left):
Amsterdam
Black Oak
Brick
Cameron's
Church Key
Cool
Denison's
Durham
Granite
Great Lakes
Heritage
Hockley Valley
King
Mill St.
Muskoka
Neustadt
Niagra's Best
Robert Simpson
Skeena (Wolfgang's)
Ste. Andre
Stratford
Trafalgar
Walkerville
Wellington
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new OCB members
I hadn't heard of Taps... and the craft brewers site has some incorrect info (Niagara on the lake, established 2004?). The taps website has a Virgil address, with the grand openning in Dec. '05.
The OCB is a great idea... but what are they really doing? Their website isn't bad (despite the misinformation above), and they've printed some flashy brochures.... but didn't they get 5 million to spend over 5 years?
Perhaps all that money is going into a new distribution network? (yeah, I'm probably dreaming).
The OCB is a great idea... but what are they really doing? Their website isn't bad (despite the misinformation above), and they've printed some flashy brochures.... but didn't they get 5 million to spend over 5 years?
Perhaps all that money is going into a new distribution network? (yeah, I'm probably dreaming).
Being a little picky aren't we? I don't know about the dates, but the TAPS website says in a couple of places that they are a Niagara on the Lake Brewery....I think that will do, to most people Virgil is Ted Dibiase's bodyguard.I hadn't heard of Taps... and the craft brewers site has some incorrect info (Niagara on the lake, established 2004?). The taps website has a Virgil address, with the grand opening in Dec. '05.
Again, a little negative don't you think? I like the OCB's presence in the LCBO and on the Duke menus, at the TFOB, in the neat brochures, and most importantly, in the budget. Well done, this is a great start.The OCB is a great idea... but what are they really doing? Their website isn't bad (despite the misinformation above), and they've printed some flashy brochures.... but didn't they get 5 million to spend over 5 years?
As others have noted, Virgil is part of NOTL.Responsible Drinker wrote:I hadn't heard of Taps... and the craft brewers site has some incorrect info (Niagara on the lake, established 2004?). The taps website has a Virgil address, with the grand openning in Dec. '05.
And the brewery was definately around before December. They were at the Winking Judge Fest in April, 2005. Maybe the Dec/05 Grand Opening refers to their website, or a store at the brewery?
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John Aitken
- Posts: 121
- Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2005 10:26 am
- Location: North York
Can't they weed out the really crummy, bad ones from the Scotch Irish ones?GregClow wrote: it looks like these are the newest members:
Beau's
Better Bitters (Nickel Brook)
Glenora Springs
MacLean's (new name for F&M?)
Old Credit
Scotch Irish
Taps
That list just hurts my eyes! I don't want ANYONE to equate, say Sgt. Majors IPA with Glenora White Cap Lager, both "CBA" beers!
I hope a raised consumer awareness will - all by itself - eliminate the inferior products as a total joke, without much damage to the image of good CBA brewers and beers some people may finally give a chance. It's probably a risk (assuming people really notice or care or ascribe much authority to this "CBA" & then possibly lump all Alliance products together.)
By association, I've noticed some VQA Ontario wines aren't that special, yet I still ascribe a general quality standard and 'promise' to the VQA-logo capsule when I see it, so there's a counter-argument.
In Beerum Veritas
The Taps thing was just confusing... I was in (the town of) Niagara-on-the-lake in the fall, and never saw/heard of them (which is unfortunate, if they were actually just around the corner).
The OCB isn't like the VQA... there's no quality assurance. As I see it, they're basically just marketing for the little guy... though they do claim to have a commitment to excellence:
"We’re the Ontario Craft Brewers. 30 brewers dedicated to making great tasting beer, right here in Ontario. The reason we’ve got together is to promote our fresh, natural, quality beer and agree on a commitment to excellence that everyone has to live up to."
Maybe I am being a little negative, but I thought $5 mil might get us a little more!
It'd be nice to see SOMETHING under the events:
http://www.ontariocraftbrewers.ca/events/default.aspx
Festival? Tastings? Tours? Something like the old ale-trail?
The OCB isn't like the VQA... there's no quality assurance. As I see it, they're basically just marketing for the little guy... though they do claim to have a commitment to excellence:
"We’re the Ontario Craft Brewers. 30 brewers dedicated to making great tasting beer, right here in Ontario. The reason we’ve got together is to promote our fresh, natural, quality beer and agree on a commitment to excellence that everyone has to live up to."
Maybe I am being a little negative, but I thought $5 mil might get us a little more!
It'd be nice to see SOMETHING under the events:
http://www.ontariocraftbrewers.ca/events/default.aspx
Festival? Tastings? Tours? Something like the old ale-trail?
Quality assurance can relate to many things like ingredients, process or taste. I don't know much about the VQA, but thought it related more to process and ingredients (i.e. 100% Ontario grown grapes). How any organization can ensure a good tasting product is hard to imagine.Responsible Drinker wrote: The OCB isn't like the VQA... there's no quality assurance. As I see it, they're basically just marketing for the little guy... though they do claim to have a commitment to excellence:
"We’re the Ontario Craft Brewers. 30 brewers dedicated to making great tasting beer, right here in Ontario. The reason we’ve got together is to promote our fresh, natural, quality beer and agree on a commitment to excellence that everyone has to live up to."
Though the OCB suggests we equate brewing quality with good tasting beer, it's a bit of a stretch considering some of the non-inspiring offerings. But look at the effectiveness of the VQA over the years and the warm and fuzzy feeling it gives customers now, especially if you consider the status of the Ontario wine industry 10-20 years ago. Give it time and the OCB will help raise the profiles of its members as well as consumer awareness about good beer. A maturing market always looks for (or demands) more interesting and quality products, weeding out the generics, but typically takes much longer to reach this level than it took the limited group of people who frequent sites like this (aka the true beer lovers).
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midlife crisis
- Beer Superstar
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- Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 7:00 pm
- Location: Toronto
Really. All one has to do is google "VQA." Easy-to-read consumer information for all.lagerale wrote:I don't know much about the VQA, but thought it related more to process and ingredients (i.e. 100% Ontario grown grapes)..
For example, all VQA-branded products must be given a panel tasting quality approval, to get at least the black capsule, and then the most exceptional wines get a gold VQA capsule.
Let's try to be more aware of VQA rather than spread confusion - exactly right to say this I think, given that in this instance the VQA was made to seem useless - you pass around misleading information like this and people will just propagate it further, unfortunately.
Same applies to discussion of OCBA, we need to tell people correct information if we have any to share, and promote good brewers. I feel part of what we can say is this: if the person you speak to hasn't heard of some OCBA beers, it's not because they aren't often very good, BUT because they are often small-batch artisanal brewing operations - hence, 'Craft Beer', an intriguing brewing subculture for them to validate and explore - armed with a few tips on what's good, again your forté to share.
One Black Oak leads to another.
In Beerum Veritas
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Mississauga Matt
- Posts: 270
- Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2002 7:00 pm
Michael Vaughan has long been a critic of the VQA:
... it gets worse - because while the VQA does provide a guarantee of authenticity, not all VQA wines schmeck! In other words, it’s not just possible, but in fact, very likely that you can find a cheaper, non-VQA wine that will taste better than some of its VQA cousins.
Unfortunately, just suggesting this will be seen as heresy by those who carry the VQA torch...
Most famously was his article on the ladybug-tainted wines of '93 that still managed to get the VQA label.... the regular label carries on supported by a VQA grading panel mostly made up of LCBO consultants. And that is where I have become alarmed. Why? Because it has become increasingly self-evident that VQA stickers are now popping up on all kinds of undeserving wines.
Guess what? I got a fever. And the only prescription ... is more cowbell!
Sure. I have had rather bland VQA wines, and also terrific wines that Ontario producers don't bother to VQA. Nothing in this should be an all-encompassing qualifier, or a DIS-qualifier for that matter.
The VQA system has done a lot for consumer confidence, and improved Ontario standards immeasurably. Quality was finally used to compete, so it happened there now ARE some exceptional wines that would not exist here and owe their survival to the created market. Period.
You can't say "VQA means nothing", which is implicitly what some of you are saying here. Trashing it ouright, well why do that.
You can say that the general good IDEA and practices of VQA (go on, google the subject) DOES need some consistent kind of review and reform to function at its best, like any system.
In France - the world authority on wine making - the entire AOC system, being rather ancient, is in need of some review and reform... certain Cru Classe Bordeux wines that have degenerated while resting on their laurels, while supposedly 'lesser' ones (even lesser-known wine appelations) have started to blow them away. No-one is re-classing any of these vineyards or reviewing the real meaning of appelations.
The good thing about Ontario is, there isn't an uncritical antiquated system protecting a lot of old French wine chateaux for better or worse, so... maybe the VQA will have more flexibility making total sense of things here if they decide to. Now if more Germans ran it... no I'm kidding.
But back to the discussion of beer:
The OCBA is not a quality assurance organization: so what is it? A small-business club with a vague pledge to do a good job, while lobbying for financial breaks and p-o-s visibilty? That's not really an impressive set of clear aims, to the public. It doesn't offer the unsuspecting consumer very much, maybe a tug on the sleeve, or does it really offer more? There's no guarantee of ANYthing in that unfamiliar carton of beer. My Consumer Brain wants to hear a promise, a "good word in" that translates into evident quality when I open that first bottle at home.
If it's a horrible first bottle for the customer, it's back to MolBatt & nothing is accomplished. People's faith in product is everything.
The VQA system has done a lot for consumer confidence, and improved Ontario standards immeasurably. Quality was finally used to compete, so it happened there now ARE some exceptional wines that would not exist here and owe their survival to the created market. Period.
You can't say "VQA means nothing", which is implicitly what some of you are saying here. Trashing it ouright, well why do that.
You can say that the general good IDEA and practices of VQA (go on, google the subject) DOES need some consistent kind of review and reform to function at its best, like any system.
In France - the world authority on wine making - the entire AOC system, being rather ancient, is in need of some review and reform... certain Cru Classe Bordeux wines that have degenerated while resting on their laurels, while supposedly 'lesser' ones (even lesser-known wine appelations) have started to blow them away. No-one is re-classing any of these vineyards or reviewing the real meaning of appelations.
The good thing about Ontario is, there isn't an uncritical antiquated system protecting a lot of old French wine chateaux for better or worse, so... maybe the VQA will have more flexibility making total sense of things here if they decide to. Now if more Germans ran it... no I'm kidding.
But back to the discussion of beer:
The OCBA is not a quality assurance organization: so what is it? A small-business club with a vague pledge to do a good job, while lobbying for financial breaks and p-o-s visibilty? That's not really an impressive set of clear aims, to the public. It doesn't offer the unsuspecting consumer very much, maybe a tug on the sleeve, or does it really offer more? There's no guarantee of ANYthing in that unfamiliar carton of beer. My Consumer Brain wants to hear a promise, a "good word in" that translates into evident quality when I open that first bottle at home.
If it's a horrible first bottle for the customer, it's back to MolBatt & nothing is accomplished. People's faith in product is everything.
In Beerum Veritas