new OCB members

Belgian · Post by **Belgian** » Thu May 04, 2006 7:18 pm

Mississauga Matt wrote:Michael Vaughan has long been a critic of the VQA:

Unfortunately, just suggesting this will be seen as heresy by those who carry the VQA torch...

Nothing worse than dogmatism replacing real values.

Often people want no real values but instead make-believe values, as your quote suggests. Interesting, hey?

PRMason · Post by **PRMason** » Fri May 05, 2006 7:56 am

The initial purpose of the VQA was to gain access to the Eurpopean market. E.U. standards held that wines brought into the Union had to be from a designated viticultural area. Its really a non-tarriff barrier to trade. Then the VQA came along & established geographical limitations. They then went a step further, with a tasting panel and approved grape varietites and blends. This does not exist in any of the European appelation systems. All the A.O.C. means in terms of french wine is that then grapes are from a specific region. No guarantee of quality is made. The same is true of any appelation wine in Europe.
Wine and beer are quite different, in many ways. An appelation system is good from a marketing standpoint. What we have to watch out for is the purists who would adhere dogmatically to style guides. Many fantastic beers defy strict pigeonholing and don't fit neatly into any specific catagory. We don't want to stifle creativity by imposing monolithic guidelines. Quality is ultimately judged by the consumer.

Rob Creighton · Post by **Rob Creighton** » Fri May 05, 2006 9:23 am

midlife crisis wrote:More interesting issue to me is why F&M seems to be re-branded as "MacLean's Ales" and, if they only brew ales now, what happened to their other products, particularly Stonehammer? Rob?

As a rough copy of the response I sent to the news department at bartowel, F&M Brewery continues to exist as it has before (bad website and all). The MacLean's Pale Ale is and has always been a beer that Charles MacLean owns and licences to F&M to produce. This is not unlike what Perry does with his products at Heritage and Church Key and what Micheal does with his beers at Mill Street and Black Oak.

Charles does not have an installed, licenced facility to produce his brand(s) but is looking to develop the MacLeans brands with a number of products to be announced later. F&M is growing well at present with the Stone Hammer Pilsner, Stone Hammer Dark Ale and Barrelhead Premium Draiught.

The cask market is going through a reasonable growth curve at present and I think this will help with what Charles is looking to do and will certainly give you folks something to try and chat about.

As it happens Charles is the contracted brewer at F&M and oversees the brewing and development of the F&M products. He also does work in starting up other breweries and has had a hand in the development of Wellington, Neustadt, Hockley and a few others over the years.

Hope this clarifies things. Look for more to come from The MacLeans brands in the near future.

Cheers!

lagerale · Post by **lagerale** » Fri May 05, 2006 9:45 am

PRMason wrote:Quality is ultimately judged by the consumer.

You hit the nail on the head. No panel is going to tell you what tastes "good" to you! Sure, it may be true to style, if adhering to style is your thing, but most people can hone in on what they like. Some prefer sweet beers, some like the sours or highly hopped, some like a strong malt backbone.

That list just hurts my eyes! I don't want ANYONE to equate, say Sgt. Majors IPA with Glenora White Cap Lager, both "CBA" beers!

Do you equate all wines under the VQA banner equally? Then why would the general public do so for beers under the OCB banner? It hurts to see someone insinuate that the general public isn't smart enough to discover quality beer? You found it, so why can't they? And no one has trashed the VQA, only pointed out that a label, by any organized group, is just a label and does not necessarily constitute a good tasting product. In the case of the OCB, I hope they can educate the the consumer enough to distinguish between craft brewed produts and mass produced products (noting that some big brewers can produce a good beer if they wanted to), but the OCB can't ensure that all the beer produced by their members will taste good.

Rob Creighton · Post by **Rob Creighton** » Fri May 05, 2006 9:56 am

Sorry, but as an add-on (to shamelessly plug our products), we have recently finished the adjustments to our lagers and ales so that all of our beers are now single hop products.

We view this giving definition to our brands that also educates beer drinkers on different hop styles and flavours.

The Stone Hammer Pilsner is made up of 100% Weyermann Pilsner malt and 100% Saaz hops along with Weinstephan lager yeast and is 5% abv.

The Stone Hammer Dark Ale uses Crisp English malts combined with 100% Fuggles hops and an English Ale Yeast that Charles sourced while working over there and is 5% abv.

The Barrelhead has just gone to 100% Weyermann Pilsner malt and is 100% Hallertauer hops from Germany. It is 4.2% abv and , given our size, we can honestly say this is the worlds most expensive light beer. Unfortunetly for Toronto, it is not yet on tap there but I believe this is the greatest change we have made yet and will be my summer beer of choice. The hops jump out big time with this beer.

All right, enough plugging.

JerCraigs · Post by **JerCraigs** » Fri May 05, 2006 10:02 am

Random non-sequitur: Creemore was also part of the OCB prior to their being purchased by Molson.

I understand why some people are concerned about some of the less celebrated brewers on that list, but I would say almost all of those beers are at least a "step up" from mainstream macros. Some are perhaps a smaller step up from others.

Keep in mind that while some things like say KLB Raspberry Wheat, or Amsterdam may not excite some of us much now that we have discovered bigger and better, beers like that were often significant for people like myself getting into "better beer".

lagerale · Post by **lagerale** » Fri May 05, 2006 10:13 am

Rob Creighton wrote:All right, enough plugging.

Don't be sorry, keep plugging away.

I look forward to trying the tweaked recipes and also like this kind of info - it gives more depth and meaning to your beer (on some kind of weird level). I wish more brewers would include this info on the bottle or packaging. But could you imagine Bud doing this? I heard a recent radio ad where their "brewmaster" becomes upset that a case of his crafted beer, made with quality malt and hops, is now on sale. Give me a break, I'd like them to even try to list all their ingredients! Hmmmm, if only that was mandatory.....

Has the Barrelhead made it to Toronto?

GregClow · Post by **GregClow** » Fri May 05, 2006 10:31 am

Rob Creighton wrote: F&M Brewery continues to exist as it has before (bad website and all). The MacLean's Pale Ale is and has always been a beer that Charles MacLean owns and licences to F&M to produce.

Thanks for the clarification, Rob. I've updated the news item accordingly.

A · Post by A » Fri May 05, 2006 11:07 am

JerCraigs wrote:Keep in mind that while some things like say KLB Raspberry Wheat, or Amsterdam may not excite some of us much now that we have discovered bigger and better, beers like that were often significant for people like myself getting into "better beer".

I disagree. I would still love KLB raspberry today if the recipe and/or quality control hadnt changed for the worse.

midlife crisis · Post by **midlife crisis** » Fri May 05, 2006 7:49 pm

Rob, thanks for the info. Where might the newly-formulated Barrelhead be on tap in the Guelph area? I'll also look forward to any new product Charles develops as he's been one of the greats for going on 20 years now.

Belgian · Post by **Belgian** » Sat May 06, 2006 2:23 pm

lagerale wrote:
That list just hurts my eyes! I don't want ANYONE to equate, say Sgt. Majors IPA with Glenora White Cap Lager, both "CBA" beers!
Do you equate all wines under the VQA banner equally? Then why would the general public do so for beers under the OCB banner? It hurts to see someone insinuate that the general public isn't smart enough to discover quality beer?

Well clearly no tasting panel could have ever tried or approved White Cap, so no, we can't parallel the VQA and the OBBA in any way. Excellent you brought that one up.

As far as the general public, forget intelligence, are you in fact saying Big-Dollar advertising & promotion has not, de facto, mainstreamed the beer market & created a very strong buyer resistance to trying unfamiliar craft beers? Otherwise, why do we need an OCBA, and why is there such a tiny percentage of sales in Craft? That's not a matter of intelligence, people can't intelligently chose what they don't know.

lagerale · Post by **lagerale** » Mon May 08, 2006 9:27 am

It appears as if we're converging to a similar conclusion....that a body like the OBC may help the general public distinguish between and appreciate the merits of craft made beer versus mass produced (& marketed) beer. I still don't think they can tell the consumer which of its members products is better than another, but eventually the general public's palate will mature. I just wish they would catch up!!!

As for mass marketing....I nearly cried

when I heard a woman order a twelve-pack of Steelback Copperhead (marketed as a bohemian style Pilsener brewed exclusively for those with exceptional tastes)...AHHHHHHHHHHH.