Church-Key Flemish Sour Brown Ale

[Colin @ Canada]

Church key being one of my favorite breweries has again gone out on a limb producing some different and very interesting styles. This sour brown ale, called "Lactese Falcon" (8.0%) is definitely very different. Sampled in a half pint snifter I have to say that I was blown away by the intense sour palate and "blue cheese" nose. Being a fan of the sour ale and flemish sour style I give two thumbs up to their sour brown ale, but it's not for everyone and if you are not into the sour ales than you may not like this. And thanks again to Church-Key for brigging new and unique styles to Ontario.

[pootz]

sounds delicious....5 stars to John for being venturesome enough to bring these bold styles to the local market.

A draft flemish sour brown..must be a national first....any hope to see this style in hand pulled cask?

[Wheatsheaf]

This sour brown ale, called "Lactese Falcon"...

Lactese Falcon, eh? So what were the folks at the C'est What festival drinking? Vomit Comet?

http://www.ratebeer.com/Beer/church-key ... own/78808/

[GregClow]

I love sour ales, and I like pretty much every beer Church Key has produced in the past. But I did not like this beer at all based on the sample I tried at C'est What.

I fully expect and enjoy some funkiness in beers of the style, but the overpowering cheese/vomit aroma of this one was just over the top, and while the flavour wasn't quite as offensive, I still didn't dig it too much.

I'll give it another chance if I see it on tap elsewhere, as I know this is a style that is prone to variation from batch to batch. But for now, I have to tag it as a failed experiment.

Great name, though.

[Derek]

I'll give it another chance if I see it on tap elsewhere, as I know this is a style that is prone to variation from batch to batch. But for now, I have to tag it as a failed experiment.

You're a brave man.

[Belgian]

A beer that smells like a puddle of barf.

Sheer optimistic confidence I guess. I would like to re-try the CK IPA though.

[pootz]

A beer that smells like a puddle of barf.

Sheer optimistic confidence I guess. I would like to re-try the CK IPA though.

If you can't stand the smell of barf don't be a father

[Colin @ Canada]

Hey, a fine Blue Vein cheese doesn't smell like roses either. Sometimes in white wine I smell urine, sometimes in red wine I taste sulphur, sometimes in beer you guys taste barf. Either you have fun with it or you don't. Either you appreciate it or you don't.

[tuqueboy]

Church key being one of my favorite breweries has again gone out on a limp

Out on a limp, eh? That about sums it up...

[tomthompson89]

Do you allways have to be rude tuqueboy??? first ratebeer now here. really gentlemen i think it deserves another try. In bottle which i have. I noticed it has a lot less pungent odor, and is a little more smooth. Actually if u look up what things they judge a sour flemish ale by in different beer compeitions it hits it basically right on. Also who here has ever tasted a sour flemish this young and on tap before??? All things to think about before we go trashing a brew that because it does have a slight amount of bacteria, in it that could have wiped out his whole brewery, He put alot on the line for this beer that we sitting in out basement may not understand as many of us are not brewers and dont have our lively hood staked in this. We ask for different interesting beer to challenge us then if its not quite what we think is perfect we trash it. This is at least an Ontario first maybe a Canada first. Also i am at least interested to see how it mellows when it ages.

[grub]

Do you allways have to be rude tuqueboy???

hmmm...i thought tuqueboy had very little to say, especially considering others were comparing it to vomit. in fact, everyone that i've spoken to who has tried it immediately made that comparison - and many of them are intimately familiar with all things lambic and wild. there is a world of difference between sour/wild ales and a puddle of barf, and i just don't think you can say it's due to inexperience with the style. i've also never seen a style category where vomit + moldy cheese were desired traits for a beer.

i also don't think "a sour flemish ale this young" is a viable excuse. if it's too young to drink then why serve it? these are beers that would (depending on the style) age for a minimum of 2 years in wood at ambient temps or 1 year in stainless at 90F-ish temps. i'm sure there is a world of difference between these beers at two weeks and two years, but that doesn't mean you sell the 2 week version and blame the consumer if they don't like it.

i certainly do give church key credit for trying something new and different - something that we all should do - but when they opened the fermenter and tasted this they should have either gave it more time (since it is clearly not ready for consumption) or chalked it up as a failed experiment and moved on.

as for your bottle, definitely give it time. wild ales are prone to major changes, and this one might make a change for the better. from what i've heard it certainly can't get any worse.

[pootz]

Also who here has ever tasted a sour flemish this young and on tap before???

A good point TT89...from the reading I've done these Flanders reds which utilize lactobacillus are pretty nasty whithout a year or so of barreling on them before tasting..then there is the expert blending to disguise the more noxious traits in the younger vints.

As you say most of us can only relate to the Rodenbach grand cru or Petrus old brown...both well aged and artfully blended finished products.

Still, knowing how raunchy lactobacillus reds can be when young and green you have to wonder what the brewer was thinking to enter this in a tasting event so unfinished...perhaps it was for shock effect?....certainly got people talking

[tomthompson89]

I agree pootz, it might be to get people talking or it might be just he liked it as well. Anyways i think you seem to be alot more open and less judgemental then some in our little beer comunity here. I liked it and actually know a few who didn't mind it either. Now grub the remark to tuqueboy was a little more of an inside thing. But if you read the whole thread his comment to Colin was not really a nice thing. Whatever its not a big deal. Also if you have the oak barells or a place for John to possibly store it. it might be something to talk to him about. Also since you havent tried it i doubt you really should be as vocal about it as u seem to be. John isn't making excuses He likes it and i know myself and so it seems so does Colin. As well i can tell you from being at his store in Cambellford on the weekend the regular public in his area seem to be alot more open and interested then some here.

[grub]

Now grub the remark to tuqueboy was a little more of an inside thing. But if you read the whole thread his comment to Colin was not really a nice thing. Whatever its not a big deal.

he repeated what colin said and agreed with it. how is that "not really a nice thing"? colin has since edited his post and changed "limp" to "limb", but i think the previous was more appropriate too.

Also if you have the oak barells or a place for John to possibly store it. it might be something to talk to him about.

hahahaha. that's just plain funny. now i'm supposed to be responsible for aging a beer just because the brewer can't do so? if i order a chicken at a restaurant and it comes bloody, am i expected to take it home and cook it rather than sending it back for the chef to correct? if they aren't serving something fit for consumption, that's their problem - not mine. and if they are brewing a style that requires YEARS of aging, why don't they have the facilities to do so? would someone open a single malt scotch distillery and put out 1yr old scotch just because they didn't have room for all those barrels? bullshit, and surely not an excuse for serving a puddle of vomit and blaming the customer.

Also since you havent tried it i doubt you really should be as vocal about it as u seem to be.

i haven't tried it, but i'm commenting based on what i've heard from VERY experienced beer tasters who have had MANY proper examples of the style. they all said that this was the worst thing they had ever put in their mouths, and one of the most horrible things they'd ever had the displeasure to smell. and pointing out that sour brown ales shouldn't taste like vomit is hardly being all that vocal.

John isn't making excuses He likes it and i know myself and so it seems so does Colin. As well i can tell you from being at his store in Cambellford on the weekend the regular public in his area seem to be alot more open and interested then some here.

wow, awesome. i suppose you can find 3 people with no taste buds to drink just about anything. how else do the macros stay in business?

this is a beer forum, in the beer review section, and people are giving their honest opinions of the beer. should we lie just to make them feel good? no - we should be honest. as i said, i commend them for trying, but not every experiment is a success. look through the archives and you'll find lots of people bashing lots of beer - local, remote, whatever. you'll also see us all giving accolades where it is due. regardless of your position on this particular beer, it's hardly appropriate to come in all high-and-mighty and pitch a fit at any person who disliked the beer.

if i ever brewed something like this, i'd much rather have honest (even negative) feedback than just bury my head in the sand and listen to a couple fanboys.

[tuqueboy]

Do you allways have to be rude tuqueboy??? first ratebeer now here. really gentlemen i think it deserves another try. In bottle which i have. I noticed it has a lot less pungent odor, and is a little more smooth. Actually if u look up what things they judge a sour flemish ale by in different beer compeitions it hits it basically right on.

the out on the limp thing wasn't rude. it was a joke based on a typographical error. as far as rudeness goes, i removed the most egregious part of my post on ratebeer. the rest, i stand by. and if you'd actually bothered to read my whole post there, you'd realize i mentioned that it was good for john to have tried brewing an unusual style. that said, he should either never have served it to the public. or he should be prepared to hear people's opinions. frankly, your attitude of ``we should praise people for new beers even if we think they're crap'' is a backasswards way of encouraging brewing excellence. if people are selling stuff to the public, they have to be prepared for public criticism. if they want someone to make them feel better, tell them to go buy a pet.

that said, i'm willing to give it a shot in bottled form, in the interests of fairness.