John By / Tsarina Katerina

Belgian · Post by **Belgian** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:35 pm

I was down to my last two TK 2005 RIS so it was the last chance to A-B compare these two fine Russian Imperial Stouts.

Disclaimer - Tsarina Katerina and Robert By are actually two different beers made in different facilities - same recipe, but by the hand of a different Braumeister... the following views are for entertainment purposes only and certainly not of expert sources.

One of the TK 2005s at 28 months' age was becoming a little bit lactic-sour so I set it aside - the other bottle was spot-on perfect. So I grabbed two identical Duvel tulips and splashed a little of each Imperial Stout in pre-watered glasses...

My God these look like two different beers. The TK appeared a little more clingy & viscous, a dark yellow-browney Cognac color sticking to the glass. The JB looks a bit more focused and fluid leaving a clear trace. The density of color the JB has is close but not quite as impenetrable to light as the TK.

I pour and sip a little again and sniff... the two year old Tsarina does have a longer, richer almost barnyardy aroma where the By is, in a word 'crisper.'

The head of each beer is similar and (keep in mind the TK is two years older) I think the TK has a funkier color to the foam, tan with a tinge of yellow compared to the JB's whiter tan cap. The TK reminded me more of espresso in overall appearance.

The JB is overall more neat and direct in the aroma and taste and finish, while the TK insinuates itself with a little more mystery almost the way a fine sherry does. I don't think the Tsarina was always as smooth as it now is, and it sure has evolved a nice wine-like sweet complex finish. The John By is a proud beer in its own right and requires no aging to tame it. As I said a more straightforward package, lots of character and I'd be more inclined to drink it near-term.

As I sip my way into my last-ever glass of Tsarina Katerina RIS I am reminded this beer was a microcosmic event in Ontario microbrew history! I was lucky to acquire a full case (#16 of 165) to experience the evolution of this beer. It is quite unique and elegant and I'm glad this last excellent bottle held out for such a long time.

If I had to summarize these two exemplary Ontario stouts, the Tasarina is a vintage 'fifties Porsche and the John By is a late sixties' 302 Mustang. Both are a thrill ride and each has its merits of both finesse and power.

Damn good stuff, keep it up Scotch Irish and Heritage brewing.

pootz · Post by **pootz** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:24 pm

I've been sipping away on the JB for 2 weeks now and I don't tire of it..as it is "unaged" it has bright, vivid, roasty-cocoa-mocha tastes...I always finish off a home "session" with one....I want a steady supply of this very drinkable elixer.

PRMason · Post by **PRMason** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:05 pm

Gyle (batch) #3 is in the fermenter now. Started at 1.092 and is now at 1.030 and falling. we will use a coarser filter on this one to allow more flavour, aroma and body to get through. The case with this gyle will bear a A something code, indicating bottled in January.

Derek · Post by **Derek** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:38 pm

Interesting comparison. It made be go back and look at my tasting notes (which weren't exactly as I remembered).

The Tsarina had more lacing, but I'm not sure if that's from proteins or residual sugar. The coarser filter should be interesting.

The John-by doesn't have that tar-like burntness (to my taste), which was a subtle quality of the Tsarina (it wasn't overpowering like an Old Rasputin). Personally, I like the smoother roastyness of the John-by.

IIRC, the John-by doesn't have quite as much fruity esters (which are also lacking in a lot of the American versions).

grub · Post by **grub** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:49 pm

PRMason wrote:Gyle (batch) #3 is in the fermenter now. Started at 1.092 and is now at 1.030 and falling. we will use a coarser filter on this one to allow more flavour, aroma and body to get through. The case with this gyle will bear a A something code, indicating bottled in January.

hey perry, any chance of seeing this unfiltered? coarse is better, but unfiltered would probably be even better

will the only indication of batch# be on the case? i usually just see singles on the shelves so won't know which batch i'm getting. something on the label would be great, but don't know if you have the ability for anything like that.

is heritage happy with how it's been moving?

Wheatsheaf · Post by **Wheatsheaf** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:31 pm

grub wrote:...something on the label would be great, but don't know if you have the ability for anything like that.

A different cap would work, too.

Belgian · Post by **Belgian** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:05 am

Case code beginning A_____ :

I will probably hit one of the big, busy LCBO stores that has lots of cases and help myself to one of that designation. They often have cases in the back room if it's not like Cooper Steet, high stacks of cartons strewn about... I'm not shy to ask either.

The_Jester · Post by **The_Jester** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:47 pm

PRMason wrote:Gyle (batch) #3 is in the fermenter now. Started at 1.092 and is now at 1.030 and falling. we will use a coarser filter on this one to allow more flavour, aroma and body to get through. The case with this gyle will bear a A something code, indicating bottled in January.

Don't know if this can be it already, but I just picked up 6 in Peterborough with "A109" just above the bar code. On the bottle. Earlier bottles (that I have) don't have anything there.

sstackho · Post by **sstackho** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 3:28 pm

New stock with the A code is at Front & Market LCBO.

midlife crisis · Post by **midlife crisis** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:19 pm

Bought some today with "A108" on the label, just above the bar code. Took mine out of a full case, but there was no date marking on the packaging that I could see. But, as someone suggested, the cap is a different colour too (on mine at least). Old = red; new = black.

BTW, there was new, January-date-coded Sarge on the shelves too.

Bobsy · Post by **Bobsy** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:59 pm

midlife crisis wrote:BTW, there was new, January-date-coded Sarge on the shelves too.

I picked some of that up at Summerhill. It tastes damn fresh!

midlife crisis · Post by **midlife crisis** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 8:26 pm

Just did a side-by-side of the "old" version and the new. Wow! Fantastic, Perry, IMO, you've made a very good stout even better. The creamy notes are dialed down somewhat and there is greater roastiness and complexity. Great stuff.

The_Jester · Post by **The_Jester** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 10:07 am

PRMason wrote:Gyle (batch) #3 is in the fermenter now. Started at 1.092 and is now at 1.030 and falling. we will use a coarser filter on this one to allow more flavour, aroma and body to get through. The case with this gyle will bear a A something code, indicating bottled in January.

I see that it's still listed at 6.7%. I don't get it!?! Beer Smith tells me that it was already at 8.1% abv! (And over 900 calories!)

Bobsy · Post by **Bobsy** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:29 pm

midlife crisis wrote:Just did a side-by-side of the "old" version and the new. Wow! Fantastic, Perry, IMO, you've made a very good stout even better. The creamy notes are dialed down somewhat and there is greater roastiness and complexity. Great stuff.

I also did a tasting of both the 'old' and 'new' versions on Sunday evening. Both excellent beers - I feel that the coarser filter has added a stronger roasted malt background and added the complexity of the more traditional stout flavours, which seemed more muted in the original form. Having said that, the original seemed heavier on the chocolate and vinous qualities. I'd find it hard to pick a favourite! Well done to everyone involved in the brewing process!

Belgian · Post by **Belgian** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:21 pm

When you guys say 'old' or 'original' are you referring to the initial brewing of John By, or the Tsarina? I think there's a discrepancy of meaning there.