Looking for the original Bar Towel blog? You can find it at www.thebartowel.com.

We have a trivia question in order to register to prevent bots. If you have any issues with answering, contact us at cass@bartowel.com for help.

Introducing Light Mode! If you would like a Bar Towel social experience that isn't the traditional blue, you can now select Light Mode. Go to the User Control Panel and then Board Preferences, and select "Day Drinking" (Light Mode) from the My Board Style drop-down menu. You can always switch back to "Night Drinking" (Dark Mode). Enjoy!

Propeller and Southern Tier at the LCBO

Discuss beer or anything else that comes to mind in here.

Moderators: Craig, Cass

Bobbyok
Bar Fly
Posts: 625
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2003 7:00 pm
Location: Halifax

Post by Bobbyok »

detritus wrote: Right, but alcohol isn't controlled because it's important to ensure everyone can get it, like health care. It's controlled because the government wants to make sure we don't abuse it (or something), and controlling the retail chain is their way of doing it.

There doesn't seem to be anything inherent in that that implies that there should be redistributive pricing.

-Josh
On redistributive pricing, I definitely agree. But regardless of the government's reason for controlling access (whether to ensure everyone has something or to keep people from having too much of something) they really have no choice but to provide equal access.

My problem with the entire system is that the government shouldn't be retailing simply to control access to what is essentially a luxury food product. They could prevent abuse much more effectively through regulation and monitoring of a private retail system.

detritus
Bar Fly
Posts: 506
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2003 8:00 pm
Location: The Junction

Post by detritus »

Bobbyok wrote:On redistributive pricing, I definitely agree. But regardless of the government's reason for controlling access (whether to ensure everyone has something or to keep people from having too much of something) they really have no choice but to provide equal access.
Agreed, equal access, but not necessarily equal pricing.

-Josh

User avatar
Derek
Beer Superstar
Posts: 3192
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:11 pm
Location: Kelowna, BC
Contact:

Post by Derek »

Speaking of crazy LCBO expenses... I think their return policy is a little too open. I wonder how much money they loose on returns?

This week I found a bottle of wine that was a 2001 vintage (and a cheap riesling you wouldn't want to age). One of the employees happened to be right there so I commented on it. She examined the bottle for sediment and said it was definitely a return. She checked their system & they hadn't carried it since 2002. She said "you probably don't want to buy this". So it seems that someone found this in their cellar, knew it probably wouldn't be good, returned it, and now it's back on the shelf?

I think most beverages should be considered a food product, and shouldn't be returned after a set time... say 30 days?

Queef
Posts: 255
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:11 pm
Location: Ontario

Post by Queef »

detritus wrote:
Bobbyok wrote:On redistributive pricing, I definitely agree. But regardless of the government's reason for controlling access (whether to ensure everyone has something or to keep people from having too much of something) they really have no choice but to provide equal access.
Agreed, equal access, but not necessarily equal pricing.

-Josh
I'm stil lconfused as to why you think the pricing is different than anywhere else based on the system they decide to implement? As noted before, beer prices are on par with other canadian areas, and as indicated by you some liqour even better priced through the lcbo? As much as I disagree with the lcbo in general principal, I don't see the cost factors you are implying. Am I missing something here? maybe I'm drunk. well, I know that.
it's beer o'clock.

detritus
Bar Fly
Posts: 506
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2003 8:00 pm
Location: The Junction

Post by detritus »

Queef wrote:I'm stil lconfused as to why you think the pricing is different than anywhere else based on the system they decide to implement? As noted before, beer prices are on par with other canadian areas, and as indicated by you some liqour even better priced through the lcbo? As much as I disagree with the lcbo in general principal, I don't see the cost factors you are implying. Am I missing something here? maybe I'm drunk. well, I know that.
Like I said, we don't know the numbers, so the transportation costs might be negligible. I was more interested in the principle, that is, that the provincial government acting through the LCBO shouldn't be redistributing the cost of transporting a luxury good to remote areas of the province (even if it is just a fraction of a cent/bottle).

That said:
1. I bet it's more that that. Fuel is expensive and beer/glass is heavy.
2. I'm not sure a comparison to other provinces is entirely valid. It might be true that a six-pack costs about the same in Calgary as it does at the LCBO, but is that also true for Grande Prairie or Athabasca? If not, that kind of says what I'm trying to say.

-Josh

User avatar
shintriad
Bar Fly
Posts: 663
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:19 pm
Location: Toronto

Post by shintriad »

detritus wrote: Like I said, we don't know the numbers, so the transportation costs might be negligible. I was more interested in the principle, that is, that the provincial government acting through the LCBO shouldn't be redistributing the cost of transporting a luxury good to remote areas of the province (even if it is just a fraction of a cent/bottle).
I see what you're getting at, but do you just mean the cost of delivering goods only when a customer requests it? Or transporting liquor in general?

Presumably, they could ship the "luxury" microbrews at the same time as the rest of the order, and distribute it according to perceived demand. This shouldn't cost the LCBO any more than it would if they only shipped Budweiser from the get-go.

Now, if you mean moving things from store to store, it's possible that they're smart enough to only tack on shipments when they're already sending a fleet over, so it might cost the province nothing more to fulfill these orders. You could also presume that, hey, a sale is a sale, and if someone in Timmins wants to order something that's not selling on Bay St., it's worthwhile to give them that free shipping.

Finally, you assume that it's only rural stores that require special orders, when this need not be the case. There are many very dense pockets of the city that have no access to certain craft beers or specialty liquors. Likewise, there always seem to be certain stores in more remote parts of the GTA and environs that have that one item you're looking for — you want Zwack's Vilmos Pear Brandy (for some reason)? Your only hope is to go to Oshawa or Whitby. Not a drop to be found downtown.

Hell, I live relatively close to Cooper St. and I still find myself hightailing it Summerhill or even Bayview Village just to ensure I get the latest batch of micros. It's a pretty sad state of affairs.

detritus
Bar Fly
Posts: 506
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2003 8:00 pm
Location: The Junction

Post by detritus »

shintriad wrote:I see what you're getting at, but do you just mean the cost of delivering goods only when a customer requests it? Or transporting liquor in general?
I meant generally.
Presumably, they could ship the "luxury" microbrews at the same time as the rest of the order, and distribute it according to perceived demand. This shouldn't cost the LCBO any more than it would if they only shipped Budweiser from the get-go.
Huh? Sure it does. Shipping more stuff costs more. I understand that the marginal cost might be small, given the huge amount of swill that's getting shipped around, but there's still a cost.

Regardless, my point was that everything the LCBO is selling is a luxury good (even the swill), and the transportation costs shouldn't be redistributed in even pricing across the province.
Now, if you mean moving things from store to store, it's possible that they're smart enough to only tack on shipments when they're already sending a fleet over, so it might cost the province nothing more to fulfill these orders. You could also presume that, hey, a sale is a sale, and if someone in Timmins wants to order something that's not selling on Bay St., it's worthwhile to give them that free shipping.
Sure, although that only works if it's not selling on Bay St. Probably, most of the stuff that gets sent up north using this kind of system would get sold in Toronto regardless.
Finally, you assume that it's only rural stores that require special orders, when this need not be the case. There are many very dense pockets of the city that have no access to certain craft beers or specialty liquors. Likewise, there always seem to be certain stores in more remote parts of the GTA and environs that have that one item you're looking for — you want Zwack's Vilmos Pear Brandy (for some reason)? Your only hope is to go to Oshawa or Whitby. Not a drop to be found downtown.

Hell, I live relatively close to Cooper St. and I still find myself hightailing it Summerhill or even Bayview Village just to ensure I get the latest batch of micros. It's a pretty sad state of affairs.
Maybe. That's essentially a different argument though.

What I'm talking about is the use of a crown corporation to redistribute the costs of supplying a luxury good in remote areas of the porvince to all consumers of the good.

What your last point addresses is just a supply chain issue in the LCBO. Presumably, they have some kind of reasonable process for determining which stores will stock which SKUs. They probably look at demographics, past sales, shelf space, etc. As we all know, they're not particularly good at this, at least for some beer, which ends up sitting on the shelf in stores where it doesn't get bought up. However, they have a huge number of SKUs and they probably know what they're doing - even if we don't like them, at the end of the day they're a pretty sophisticated retailer.

-Josh

User avatar
Belgian
Bar Towel Legend
Posts: 10033
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2004 7:15 pm
Location: Earth

Post by Belgian »

Derek wrote:Speaking of crazy LCBO expenses... I think their return policy is a little too open. I wonder how much money they loose on returns?

...

I think most beverages should be considered a food product, and shouldn't be returned after a set time... say 30 days?
Disagree with Derek here. I'd rather we keep the option to return anything - such a case of wine - if I decide it to be less than great after a few months' trial.

In Ontario product availability is limited in the first place so trial/return may be the only way to ensure "first dibs" on anything good that shows up here.

Usually I keep my 'speculation' purchases if they ARE any good. I doubt the LC are 'losing' much money on such returns - not due to a lot of seven-year-old product. The LC probably lose more in breakage! (Let's not even talk about the huge revenue the LCBO spend internally.)
In Beerum Veritas

sweetback
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 7:23 pm

Post by sweetback »

anyone know the dates these will be hitting the shelves, especially the dfh60?

Post Reply