The Beer Store: Exposed as the crooks that they are!

[Bytowner]

The articles are good, I enjoy reading these. Well written and certainly a topic that deserves attention.

After reading the articles, I see comments on the bottom that are written from random readers.

Most of them make their points, and they are dually noted, but readers must keep in mind that the LCBO employs a lot of people, including myself. I worked hard to get the job, and I work even harder to keep it.

I take pride in it, and some of these readers seem to forget that there are thousands of jobs that are created by the LCBO. Like the system or not, a vote for privatization is a vote for me to lose my job. That's my reality. This is why I do the best job I can do each and every day.

Some of these people might feel the same way if people were constantly trying to take their job away.

If everything was completely privatized tomorrow (which it won't be, the best we can hope for is allowing boutique style shops, which is actually the solution I'm most in favour of) do you really think all those LCBO stores would simply close up shop, leave hundreds of acres of commercial real estate empty? Not a chance, I'm guessing companies would bid for the LCBO's assets. The LCBO (under that name or some other) would survive. Yep, a lot of really rotten LCBO employees would probably lose their jobs, or quit and join a government department, not being able to stand the idea of providing good service to clients. Good employees like yourself, with good knowledge and experience, would no doubt find new retail jobs or, even better, be the first to open up awesome bottle shops for the rest of us to enjoy.

[SteelbackGuy]

i really hate radio stations. I hope they close them all because I believe in free marlet radio broad casted from people's homes.

Not quite the same thing.

But thanks, I work in an industry with so little job security it's not even funny, so you'll forgive me if I don't really feel worried for you or your union insulated government owned monopoly. You have 99% job security and the LCBO is never going away. Your company has done a great job of brainwashing the people into believing that Big Brother knows best and that the LCBO is the best way to keep alcohol out of the hands of minors. And we all know underage drinking creates an unstoppable black hole of decadence that will tear the very existence of Ontario's society limb from limb.

Its exactly the same thing. I can't let my kids listen to radio. If I do, the world will fall apart.

Media cannot be trusted unless big brother is watching its every move.

Radio announcers preach hatred through subliminal messages that, unless are monitored, are of detriment to the entire province. These are my beliefs.

Welcome to a free market system where big brother knows best and the black hole keeps getting bigger where underage drinking creates radio broafcasting that spreads politctcal lies through the spectrum.

[Ale's What Cures Ya]

Its exactly the same thing. I can't let my kids listen to radio. If I do, the world will fall apart.

Media cannot be trusted unless big brother is watching its every move.

Radio announcers preach hatred through subliminal messages that, unless are monitored, are of detriment to the entire province. These are my beliefs.

Welcome to a free market system where big brother knows best and the black hole keeps getting bigger where underage drinking creates radio broafcasting that spreads politctcal lies through the spectrum.

Well, other than the fact that we're arguing for or against privatization, and that the radio industry is already a private industry (excluding the CBC, which I happen to believe should be taken apart) the rest of your argument is hilarious.

Don't let your kids listen to the radio. If you feel as though the media spreads lies (which it does, I in fact quite enjoy editing news story into various slants) then go with your beliefs and don't listen.

And we are monitored. It's a little thing called the CRTC.

[SteelbackGuy]

We all have our different views. All arguments are silly to some.

The point that I am making is job secutiry.
Most people are concerned for their jobs. it just makes sense.

[Bytowner]

The misinformation and downright lies from the Beer Store fans (honestly?) in the comments section are really making me angry. It's a frightnening look into the mind of your average Ontarian.

[The_Jester]

It's really tough if you are under age in Ontario to buy wine or beer or liquor through the LCBO or Beer Store," the premier said. "It's a good system.

I call bull shit!

I'm a high school teacher. Many students have made it very clear to me that it is easier for the kids to buy pot, pills, whatever, than it is to buy booze. Some have told me that it is easier to get served in (certain) bars than The Beer Store. The only ones who have an easy time getting booze are the ones with an older sibling (or parent!) who'll get it for them.

I firmly believe that there is room in our marketplace for both the LCBO/TBS and specialty stores.

I agree. This system already exists in other provinces, doesn't it?


I was actually a little disappointed with the final (Monday's) article. There was really nothing new or innovative there. As well, I feel it could have delved a little more deeply into how the transition itself could happen, or how it has happened in other places. A solution was given without an explanation of how it could actually be brought about. Surely waiting for a government that's willing and able to change things is not the best solution.

Having said that, the author did a good job of pointing out some of the problems with the system. The stories were featured prominently in Canada's largest paper and so hopefully there are a few more outraged (or even mildly upset) people out there today than there were last Friday.

[detritus]

We all have our different views. All arguments are silly to some.

The point that I am making is job secutiry.
Most people are concerned for their jobs. it just makes sense.

Revised LCBO motto: We are in the business of engaging, helpful service that goes the extra mile, unless you threaten our jobs.

-Josh

[SteelbackGuy]

We all have our different views. All arguments are silly to some.

The point that I am making is job secutiry.
Most people are concerned for their jobs. it just makes sense.

Revised LCBO motto: We are in the business of engaging, helpful service that goes the extra mile, unless you threaten our jobs.

-Josh

Epic fail.

That is not what I said.

Every time this topic comes up I am the bad guy because I like my job.

It is clear my opinion is not welcome here on the bartowel, and as a result I will refrain from posting any further. Yet another member lost to the rain storm.

[Bobbyok]

We all have our different views. All arguments are silly to some.

The point that I am making is job secutiry.
Most people are concerned for their jobs. it just makes sense.

Revised LCBO motto: We are in the business of engaging, helpful service that goes the extra mile, unless you threaten our jobs.

-Josh

Epic fail.

That is not what I said.

Every time this topic comes up I am the bad guy because I like my job.

It is clear my opinion is not welcome here on the bartowel, and as a result I will refrain from posting any further. Yet another member lost to the rain storm.

That isn't what he said Len. If you are claiming that you like your job selling beer and other alcoholic beverages, then you could do that with the possibility of as good a paycheck if not better in a privately operated system. With the advantage that the better you are at that job, the greater the possibility of reward with additional remuneration and/or responsibility. In the LCBO system, you get rewarded through years of service and seniority without regard for competence.

Voting for privatization does not mean you'd be voting yourself out of a job. You'd only be voting yourself out of your current job. Those aren't the same thing.

[Rob Creighton]

I hope the end result of the 'systems' fear of change is that they acknowledge the precedent that has already been set.

Constellation Brands from NY owns 160 retail outlets in grocery stores across this province. Andres Wines owns 100. Magnotta has 7 I think. These stores are licences to print money and represent only the brands of these companies. During holiday seasons, I've stood in a Zehr's and watched the cash register never stop ringing! No other winery is allowed this opportunity.

The option for a smaller version of this for craft breweries and wineries is staring them in the face. They acknowledge there is a problem in private and are looking for any opportunity to support Ontario based companies. Now may be the time. We can only hope.

[Bytowner]

I'm a high school teacher. Many students have made it very clear to me that it is easier for the kids to buy pot, pills, whatever, than it is to buy booze. Some have told me that it is easier to get served in (certain) bars than The Beer Store. The only ones who have an easy time getting booze are the ones with an older sibling (or parent!) who'll get it for them.

As a teacher, you'll know that "harder" is a relative term. You know the kids in your classes drink, even the ones without older siblings. The system makes it a tad more difficult, but, overall, it isn't actually that difficult at all. That being said, the whole argument that you can make sure LCBO and Beer Store employees don't sell to minors, but you can't for employees in other retail environments is absolutely absurd. There's no reason you can't make legislation that would make it just as difficult to buy alcohol in corner stores or specialty shops.

[Bobbyok]

I firmly believe that there is room in our marketplace for both the LCBO/TBS and specialty stores.

I agree. This system already exists in other provinces, doesn't it?

That's basically what Nova Scotia has on a very limited basis. Since the government run stores arne't going anywhere soon, and based on my experience here, I think a good compromise for everyone isn't to make the LCBO or Beer Store disappear, but rather make them compete. The private stores here have actually made the NSLC step up in terms of product selection and service. They knew they had to or they'd see their sales decline.

There would still be opponents to this. The Union (and by that I don't mean union members who often have vastly different views than the official union position), the LCBO, and the Beer Store higher ups wouldn'y want to see their monopolies disappear. But it would be much more difficult politically to defend the status quo to the general public if each of those entities was allowed to continue existing while having their monopolies taken away.

[Bobsy]

If they are so into recycling why do I have to throw out of province bottles into the blue bin? I don't expect any cash for taking them in, but surely these standard size bottles are as reusable as the ones which I pay deposit on.

That's your own mistake not theirs. I have never had an out or province our country bottle refused or not paid out at the Beer Store.

The only time i set foot in TBS is to return empties. I haven't bought anything from their in probably 2 years.

I worded my original comment a bit vaguely, so incase there is a misunderstanding by out of province I meant stuff not available for purchase in Ontario). I'm not aware of a beer store that would take back bottles I have bought in the States or elsewhere, and there would be no chance at my local - they even argue with me over bottles that have had to come through the LCBO on private order. As if I wake up in the morning and decide to defraud the beer store of 10 cents!

[Bobsy]

Voting for privatization does not mean you'd be voting yourself out of a job. You'd only be voting yourself out of your current job. Those aren't the same thing.

Of course its not voting yourself into a new job either, so I can understand why the uncertainty that privatisation would hold would make any employee opposed to it. Heck, my brother-in-law lost his job when DriveTest took over the MTO's examination centers. It was just to easy for the new company to bring in people at a lower wage and smaller benefits package.

To me the LCBO is not the issue, I believe it does a fine job within its mandate, and seems to be improving all the time. The fact is the beer store, which you would assume to be the quality purveyor of beer isn't even on the radar for people who care about what they drink, which shows what a shitty job that monopoly is doing. In part I think this is because the beer store is motivated by profits for its stakeholders not variety, whereas the LCBO seems to feel more of an obligation towards providing Ontarians with choice.

Don't go, Len. I find your comments really interesting, and I think it makes everybody see that there is another side to the story.

[The_Jester]

I'm a high school teacher. Many students have made it very clear to me that it is easier for the kids to buy pot, pills, whatever, than it is to buy booze. Some have told me that it is easier to get served in (certain) bars than The Beer Store. The only ones who have an easy time getting booze are the ones with an older sibling (or parent!) who'll get it for them.

As a teacher, you'll know that "harder" is a relative term. You know the kids in your classes drink, even the ones without older siblings. The system makes it a tad more difficult, but, overall, it isn't actually that difficult at all. That being said, the whole argument that you can make sure LCBO and Beer Store employees don't sell to minors, but you can't for employees in other retail environments is absolutely absurd. There's no reason you can't make legislation that would make it just as difficult to buy alcohol in corner stores or specialty shops.

No. "Absurd" is too strong. It is difficult for most kids to get served at the local Beer Store. That is a fact. At least around here.
It would be easier for them to get served at the corner store, especially when their buddies are working. That is also a fact. (I'm using the ease with which they get smokes as my basis for this.) It is unreasonable to think that a local Mom & Pop operation with an unsupervised 18-year-old behind the counter is going to be as "tight" a ship as a busy, camera-filled Beer Store. Think about it.

Having said this, I don't care. If kids really want beer, they're going to get it, whether it's sold in the corner store or not. (Maybe if they could get beer a little easier, they'd stop coming to class stoned. I can see the slogan now: "More beer in corner stores = Fewer drugs in school!)

What's absurd is the thought that selling beer in corner stores will cause more teens to drink. There may be some excitement at first, but the novelty would wear off. (There must be some stats out there somewhere. From Quebec? From New York? From the communities that have LCBO agency stores? Any of these places turn into Gomorrah?)

I'm not sure I like the corner store approach anyways. As much as I like the idea of boutique stores. From my experiences in other places, the main thing that corner (and grocery) stores do for beer drinkers is bring them cheaper bad beer. So if you are looking for a $16.99 two-four of Laker, that's the way to go. (Me - I'm a Grizzly man myself.) Boutique stores will bring in the variety we're looking for. But they'd likely only show up in larger cities, and prices would probably be high.

So maybe the answer is to just open everything up. Corner stores to create competition, keep prices down, and serve smaller communities. And boutique stores to serve us beer snobs and provide alternatives to people who want to try something new. And there is no reason why TBS and the LCBO can't continue to exist in this environment. (Did Bell Canada disappear when the phone lines were opened up to competition?)