The Beer Store: Exposed as the crooks that they are!

Ale's What Cures Ya · Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:23 pm

Steelback I just noticed who was in your avatar. Couldn't be more fitting if it tried.

Cheers!

SteelbackGuy · Post by **SteelbackGuy** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:11 am

DragonOfBlood wrote:Steelback I just noticed who was in your avatar. Couldn't be more fitting if it tried.

Cheers!

I'll send Princess Zelda your regards.

Tapsucker · Post by **Tapsucker** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:51 am

SteelbackGuy wrote:I have received a number of private messages encouraging me not to permanently leave the bartowel, and as a result I have decided to stick around. In the future I will not get so emotionally involved, and I will limit my LCBO defence posts as most people here find them to be insane.

That's great! I hope you appreciate that we started this whole TBS bashing thread just to take some heat of the LCBO for you.

Belgian · Post by **Belgian** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:56 pm

Cass wrote:I firmly believe that there is room in our marketplace for both the LCBO/TBS and specialty stores.

Very interesting thought. A stupid analogy: You can have Kia dealerships AND still allow the sales of Ferrari. Whole Foods does not threaten the more generic food section at WalMart. Not at all!

We can have innovation & still preserve the very homogeneous, reliable LCBO / BS system for the many who just want to roll into any store, anywhere and get exactly what they came for in about five minutes.

I think the real issue is Ontario is insecure about getting all of the tax revenue the way they usually do in the current situation. It's ALWAYS about money (certainly not about products or consumers.) Privately there could be illegal imports and "cash sales" that by-pass the big outstretched hand of Ottawa. Yes, no? Bars are known to sell illegal liquor, so why could it not be back-rooms of stores selling illegal cases of beer.

Would YOU 'short change' Ottawa to buy cheaper beer? I know the bring-homes from Premier Gourmet do taste better when they voluntarily wave me through at the border with no fees...

Bytowner · Post by **Bytowner** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:23 pm

Belgian wrote: I think the real issue is Ontario is insecure about getting all of the tax revenue the way they usually do in the current situation. It's ALWAYS about money (certainly not about products or consumers.) Privately there could be illegal imports and "cash sales" that by-pass the big outstretched hand of Ottawa. Yes, no? Bars are known to sell illegal liquor, so why could it not be back-rooms of stores selling illegal cases of beer.

Would YOU 'short change' Ottawa to buy cheaper beer? I know the bring-homes from Premier Gourmet do taste better when they voluntarily wave me through at the border with no fees...

By Ottawa I'm going to assume you meant Toronto... sorry, we're sensitive about that in these parts.

The_Jester · Post by **The_Jester** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:31 pm

jaymack wrote:I don't know about the rest of you but I'm feeling very excited after the last several days of media coverage both print & tv (CHCH in Hamilton covered the on-line petition story on their 11 o'clock news last night) in regards to bringign all this attention to both the OCB and The Beer Store.

Perhaps we are entering a new phase of development for Beer in this province and let's hope it continues to elevate to new heights.

Bytowner wrote:We can hope jaymack. Unfortunately, some of the comments on thestar give you a peek into the widespread ignorance we're actually dealing with.

I agree. To use a sports analogy, we've got some momentum going. The thing to do now is not to ride it, but to increase it. Write more letters. Make more phone calls. Talk to more people. Disagree with and/or enlighten the morons who support the current system in response to the Star articles.

This isn't going to stay as the media's pet issue forever, and it may be a while before it comes up again, so let's get the most out of it.

JerCraigs · Post by **JerCraigs** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:58 am

Bytowner wrote:
Belgian wrote: I think the real issue is Ontario is insecure about getting all of the tax revenue the way they usually do in the current situation.... Would YOU 'short change' Ottawa to buy cheaper beer? I know the bring-homes from Premier Gourmet do taste better when they voluntarily wave me through at the border with no fees...
By Ottawa I'm going to assume you meant Toronto... sorry, we're sensitive about that in these parts.

Excise tax is federal via the CRA isn't it? Thus it would in fact be Ottawa in addition to any provincial taxes

Belgian · Post by **Belgian** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:12 pm

JesseM wrote: What really baffles me is the 'we're so efficient' defense. So what? It's like their last ditch, lame defense when faced with legitimate questions and criticisms. You know who else was even more efficient? The Nazi's. Maybe TBS is run by neo-Nazi's? .

Logical fallacy Jesse, and a universe away to even glibly compare the two (you are a young guy & lots of people say this jokingly* so please don't get freaked out that I mention this.) To be fair TBS and LCBO do themselves rely on much logical fallacy to justify their continued existence - heck even Prohibition made no logical sense in & of itself, and was a defective Institution. The tradition continues proudly on, I guess.

* As an aside - to visit a former Nazi-run concentration camp is quite a sobering experience & it's valuable if anyone can possibly spend a day there, just reflecting. I promise everyone they can get something quite unexpected from just doing that.

JesseM · Post by **JesseM** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 2:09 pm

Belgian wrote:
JesseM wrote: What really baffles me is the 'we're so efficient' defense. So what? It's like their last ditch, lame defense when faced with legitimate questions and criticisms. You know who else was even more efficient? The Nazi's. Maybe TBS is run by neo-Nazi's? .
Logical fallacy Jesse, and a universe away to even glibly compare the two (you are a young guy & lots of people say this jokingly* so please don't get freaked out that I mention this.) To be fair TBS and LCBO do themselves rely on much logical fallacy to justify their continued existence - heck even Prohibition made no logical sense in & of itself, and was a defective Institution. The tradition continues proudly on, I guess.

* As an aside - to visit a former Nazi-run concentration camp is quite a sobering experience & it's valuable if anyone can possibly spend a day there, just reflecting. I promise everyone they can get something quite unexpected from just doing that.

Just as a disclaimer I'd like to point out that one of the major influences in my life was the Diary of Anne Frank. Please don't think I take the whole 'Nazi thing' lightly. Geez I'll think twice next time I feel like making an obviously faux comparison

. But good point about the logical fallacy.

cirrosis · Post by **cirrosis** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 2:32 pm

has anybody put any thought into this whole "cheaper" beer thing. first off if there was beer in your corner store, they would order their stock from.... you guessed it "the beer store warehousing" (they would never let that part of their business go) which would be priced as it is now. then take into account profit, delivery charge and other expenses involved in selling a refrigerated product in your store and tell me where you can factor in cheaper prices?

Belgian · Post by **Belgian** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 2:36 pm

No need for the disclaimer, Jesse, we know that and it wasn't really about you -- nor would I bully others into some kind of over-the-top 'political correctness' (doing that would be rather 'fascist' of me, quite ironically since we speak of the Nazi regime. Let's not let the "Language Police" win the fight either, right?

)

I often tell people that visiting those former KZ camps is worthwhile, by the way.

Bytowner · Post by **Bytowner** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 3:12 pm

JerCraigs wrote:Excise tax is federal via the CRA isn't it? Thus it would in fact be Ottawa in addition to any provincial taxes

I have no idea, but either way Ottawa has no say in how liquor is sold in Ontario. If, as you say, it's a federal thing, than all the more reason Dalton shouldn't be so "insecure" about it. Still, I'm sure the minimum price on a bottle of beer is an Ontario regulation.

Simply saying that the Beer Store and LCBO rest squarely on the shoulders of Toronto (despite the doofus that runs the place being from Ottawa).

skaghevn · Post by **skaghevn** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:54 pm

Given McGuinty's guff about social responsiblity and how the private sector wouldn't do as good a job as the 'BO, I was amused to read the following in a news release about Alberta's Liquor Stores Group takeover of Alaska's Brown Jug:

Irv Kipnes, Chief Executive Officer of Liquor Stores Group, added, "We are very pleased with the opportunity to make a significant first acquisition of one of the U.S.'s best operated private liquor companies. We intend to build on Brown Jug's admirable reputation in Alaska for community activism and responsible retailing. This includes a continued commitment to help eliminate underage drinking, fight drunk driving and assist in the many social and community programs which Brown Jug supports. We look forward to becoming part of the Alaskan community."

"We will continue the policy of special alcohol server training and paying bonuses to employees for seizing fraudulent and underage ID cards from minors," said Mr. Kipnes. "And we will continue to sponsor cleaning efforts at camps for the homeless, as well as to donate time and money to Alaska organizations and fundraisers."

Bytowner · Post by **Bytowner** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:18 pm

skaghevn wrote:
Irv Kipnes, Chief Executive Officer of Liquor Stores Group, added, "We are very pleased with the opportunity to make a significant first acquisition of one of the U.S.'s best operated private liquor companies. We intend to build on Brown Jug's admirable reputation in Alaska for community activism and responsible retailing. This includes a continued commitment to help eliminate underage drinking, fight drunk driving and assist in the many social and community programs which Brown Jug supports. We look forward to becoming part of the Alaskan community."

"We will continue the policy of special alcohol server training and paying bonuses to employees for seizing fraudulent and underage ID cards from minors," said Mr. Kipnes. "And we will continue to sponsor cleaning efforts at camps for the homeless, as well as to donate time and money to Alaska organizations and fundraisers."

Silly skaghevin, don't you know that only the Union holds the magical secrets to stop underage drinking? Ontario, underage drinking free since prohibition!

Queef · Post by **Queef** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:21 am

I'm really sad to have grown up in southern ontario, as myself and all my friends knew nothing of the wonders of alcohol until we were 19+. I feel sorry for all the highschool kids these days in this province who will never get a buzz thanks to the BS.