LCBO Summer 2010 Release (Full list)

[Torontoblue]

the carton was not LCBO approved, something to do with how the bottles were seperated from each other if i remember correctly

Which is no excuse as all agents and suppliers know the packaging regulations as they are all laid out quite clearly in the guidelines.

I beg to differ. Its not as though these other packaging formats pose any kind of a risk for the buyer. Why should they all be absolutly uniform? How is it that any other private liquor merchant can accept different packaging formats and something as vast as the LCBO cannot? This has nothing to do with safety or logisitics and everything to do with government bureaucrats wanting to flex their muscle. Just further proof that government has no business selling alcohol (they can regulate to some degree but they shouldn't sell). The LCBO should be thankful that legendary beer breweries even want to do business with its backward, wasteful time consuming , nanny state procedures.

As for the LCBO insisting that beers meet a certain price criteria this is a clear bias against beers. How come I routinely see ultra expansive vodkas and wines and the same cannot apply to beer if thats whats its going for in the marketplace?

They possibly don't pose a risk to the buyer, but if not packaged correctly then the shipment risks being damaged and someone will ge held accountable for the breakages, but they are the rules and every agent and supplier knows them - so you abide by them. Ignorance is no excuse!!!

And the LCBO has recently started to bring in ultra expensive beers ALA the Ola Dubh. They have to start somewhere and the sell through and clamour this product created has maybe opened their eyes to this side of the market.

Also, don't forget that it is at the submission from an agent that the LCBO generally buys the beer; if an agent isn't submitting certain products then that ain't the boards fault, is it?

[JimC]

Also, don't forget that it is at the submission from an agent that the LCBO generally buys the beer; if an agent isn't submitting certain products then that ain't the boards fault, is it?

In a way it can be. If the LCBO's policies are difficult and require significant investment in their packaging for basically no real reason other than to sell to the LCBO the brewery isn't going to elicit a broker, or work to sell their beer to the LCBO.

Why would a brewery rework its bottling line, labeling, boxing and palleting line just to sell to the LCBO when virtually everyone else is kicking down their door trying to get the stuff? It boils down to, why bother with LCBO's crazy policies and bureaucratic insanity when we can just sell our beer to X, Y and Z.

This SUCKS for an Ontario beer consumer... and just about no one else really cares. LCBO isn't about to change there bs bureaucratic nightmare. They not about to start hunting down the top beers and bending over backwards to import them. The makers of those beers aren't about to start busting ass to sell to us. This leave us in limbo with breweries like Orval and Cantillon flipping us the bird.

[biegaman]

In a way it can be. If the LCBO's policies are difficult and require significant investment in their packaging for basically no real reason other than to sell to the LCBO the brewery isn't going to elicit a broker, or work to sell their beer to the LCBO.

Why would a brewery rework its bottling line, labeling, boxing and palleting line just to sell to the LCBO when virtually everyone else is kicking down their door trying to get the stuff? It boils down to, why bother with LCBO's crazy policies and bureaucratic insanity when we can just sell our beer to X, Y and Z.

This SUCKS for an Ontario beer consumer... and just about no one else really cares. LCBO isn't about to change there bs bureaucratic nightmare. They not about to start hunting down the top beers and bending over backwards to import them. The makers of those beers aren't about to start busting ass to sell to us. This leave us in limbo with breweries like Orval and Cantillon flipping us the bird.

Absolutely, I could not have articulated it any better myself. Anyone who tries to argue anything different is either naive or overstating the importance of the Ontario market.

The only thing I'd like to add to it is that I've traveled to breweries in places like Belgium and California and New York and spoken to brewers first hand who say, in no uncertain terms, they've thought about Ontario as a possible market for expansion but they simply don't have the time to jump through all the LCBO's hoops. Bottom line: money is money no matter where it comes from, it's just not worth all the hassle.

[Lukie]

They not about to start hunting down the top beers and bending over backwards to import them.

this is precisely what they ought to be doing. Its part of their job to import quality products so that taxpayers who pay their inflated salaries can get the best bang for their buck. Nothing naive about that. Thats the way a rational system should run. IMO there needs to be a lobby group to articulate these concerns and pressure them to reform their importing procedures. Who better than people from this site?

[Torontoblue]

They not about to start hunting down the top beers and bending over backwards to import them.

this is precisely what they ought to be doing. Its part of their job to import quality products so that taxpayers who pay their inflated salaries can get the best bang for their buck. Nothing naive about that. Thats the way a rational system should run. IMO there needs to be a lobby group to articulate these concerns and pressure them to reform their importing procedures. Who better than people from this site?

Hey, don't add my name to a quote I didn't make please.

[JimC]

They not about to start hunting down the top beers and bending over backwards to import them.

this is precisely what they ought to be doing. Its part of their job to import quality products so that taxpayers who pay their inflated salaries can get the best bang for their buck. Nothing naive about that. Thats the way a rational system should run. IMO there needs to be a lobby group to articulate these concerns and pressure them to reform their importing procedures. Who better than people from this site?

If LCBO remains the wholesaler, distributor and retailer - then yes, it damn well should be their job. But since they have a complete monopoly on it, they don't and won't. Not the place for it, but LCBO should be in the business of licencing and control, not wholesale and retail (IMHO). <Enter giant LCBO rant here?>

[northyorksammy]

I was talking to the Summerhill Silly Servants, and they were mentioning some internal talk about some independence of local stores in order to serve (read: maximize) local area needs/ethnic preferences..how this feeds up into their buying for the system I am not not optimistic, however, it COULD mean that local buyers will get more of a say leading to more selection. In other words, down the road we can find a sympathetic local store and buy every good beer from him to help support his case when he goes into a committee of 13 buyers

[kwjd]

I was talking to the Summerhill Silly Servants, and they were mentioning some internal talk about some independence of local stores in order to serve (read: maximize) local area needs/ethnic preferences..how this feeds up into their buying for the system I am not not optimistic, however, it COULD mean that local buyers will get more of a say leading to more selection. In other words, down the road we can find a sympathetic local store and buy every good beer from him to help support his case when he goes into a committee of 13 buyers

It could mean that... or it could mean that individual stores will just have more of a say of which products from the current LCBO line they want to carry. This could improve selection in some areas (or I suppose, deteriorate), while it would do absolutely nothing for the stores that already have most of the products. I just can't imagine the LCBO giving any power from the top down to the workers. It is called a "control board" for a reason.

[Lukie]

I was talking to the Summerhill Silly Servants, and they were mentioning some internal talk about some independence of local stores in order to serve (read: maximize) local area needs/ethnic preferences..how this feeds up into their buying for the system I am not not optimistic, however, it COULD mean that local buyers will get more of a say leading to more selection. In other words, down the road we can find a sympathetic local store and buy every good beer from him to help support his case when he goes into a committee of 13 buyers

Dwight Duncan also recently mentioned the LCBO and other crown assets partnering up/extending with private businesses. He was mostly talking about extending it to other provinces, but maybe some changes will take place in Ontario as well.

[Belgian]

Also, don't forget that it is at the submission from an agent that the LCBO generally buys the beer; if an agent isn't submitting certain products then that ain't the boards fault, is it?

In a way it can be. If the LCBO's policies are difficult and require significant investment in their packaging for basically no real reason other than to sell to the LCBO the brewery isn't going to elicit a broker, or work to sell their beer to the LCBO.

Agreed, the question Sid asks is unintentionally Machiavellian. Especially since the Board assumes the bizarre position of never being a proactive buyer and instead waiting for others to approach them.

The Board can't have supreme unquestionable say in what/how they sell, AND claim the effects of this huge impediment as 'not their fault.' They appear to really waste people's time over & over again which is probably the main reason importers "give up" on submitting certain products.

[sprague11]

Judging by the LCBO in Newmarket, if it became private or ordered only to suit the demands of the community, there'd be nothing left save for Bud and Corona.

[icemachine]

Judging by the LCBO in Newmarket, if it became private or ordered only to suit the demands of the community, there'd be nothing left save for Bud and Corona.

The big one on Yonge and Davis? Seemed like a nice one when I went there least fall, just about every seasonal and craft was in the fridge

[SteelbackGuy]

Judging by the LCBO in Newmarket, if it became private or ordered only to suit the demands of the community, there'd be nothing left save for Bud and Corona.

Ahh Newmarket. Home to massive urban sprawl, almost no identity, people who think they are so far away from Toronto, so north! Ohh the humanity! I'm not surprised Corona would sell well to these pleabs!

[icemachine]

Judging by the LCBO in Newmarket, if it became private or ordered only to suit the demands of the community, there'd be nothing left save for Bud and Corona.

Ahh Newmarket. Home to massive urban sprawl, almost no identity, people who think they are so far away from Toronto, so north! Ohh the humanity! I'm not surprised Corona would sell well to these pleabs!

Newmarket's sprawl is nothing compared to some other GTA municipalities (cough cough Brampton)

[Belgian]

Judging by the LCBO in Newmarket, if it became private or ordered only to suit the demands of the community, there'd be nothing left save for Bud and Corona.

It could be argued that product demand evolves in lock step with what the industry actually promotes, and never without it. Hence 'requirements of a community' should include some challenging and palate-broadening products in all LCBO stores.

I think a few really backwards people managing LC stores forget this - and so they order jack squat for good beer selection. It's not enough for them to just order what has sold well in the past, they need to order tomorrow's beers as well.