Selling Craft Beer by Greg Koch of Stone

TheSevenDuffs · Post by **TheSevenDuffs** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:06 pm

SteveB wrote:delicious. And believe me, we're just getting started.

That I can agree with!

Tapsucker · Post by **Tapsucker** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:20 pm

SteveB wrote:Hmmmm...I've met Greg and thought he was a nice guy, I love the fact that he is pushing brewery ethics ahead of craft beer industry growth and agree that California is a beer mecca.

If I can stand up for Ontario for a moment though, we have 1/3 the population in the province and virtually no access to other provinces, in effect making our customer base 97% smaller than a Californian brewery's. Despite this, the Ontario craft scene has...

Big IPA's (Grand River's Curmudgeon and Black Oak's 10 Bitter Years are good examples)
Innovative and emerging beer styles (Flying Monkey's Cascadian and our Gruits are good examples)
Way more organic beer (by %) than almost anywhere in the World
Toronto Beer Week, Ontario Craft Beer Week, Brewers Plate, Golden Tap Awards/Festival, C'est Whats beer festival, Volo Cask Days, Beau's Oktoberfest and hundreds of beer dinners
Brewers from around the world visiting and hosting special dinners and events (Brooklyn, DogFish, BrewDog, De Konnigshoeven and more)
An ever increasing selection of local and (good) imported beer in the LCBO
Specialty and one offs (my brewery alone in the last year has put out a belgian imperial stout, a collaborative beer with a monestary brewery, a Sticke, a IIPA, a local malt & hop pilsner, a dunkelwiessen, a Gose, an imperial strength gruit and a coffee infused amber ale - and we're only one of dozens of breweries doing similar things)
And a virtual tidal wave of new enthusiastic breweries joining the ranks every year (railway city, hogsback, kichissippi, Maclean's, Lake of Bays and I know of at least three more in various stages of setting up) not to mention the exciting rejigging or change of ownership in breweries like King, Cameron's, Heritage & Scotch Irish and Flying Monkey's

Get with the times my friends, shitting on Ontario's beer scene is soooooooooo 5 years ago. We are vibrant, dynamic, innovative and delicious. And believe me, we're just getting started.

Well put. There are always those who feel the "grass is always greener". More often than not, they are the ones too lazy to tend to their own lawns.

The regulatory environment is outright stupid here (and in other places) but there is still a lot of talent and passion. The Stones of the world made it work in their circumstances and I'm sure our firebrands will do the same.

I certainly don't think drinking many of Ontario's great beers is a compromise in any way. Shame on those that do. But I will continue to complain about availability!

SteelbackGuy · Post by **SteelbackGuy** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:55 am

SteveB wrote:Hmmmm...I've met Greg and thought he was a nice guy, I love the fact that he is pushing brewery ethics ahead of craft beer industry growth and agree that California is a beer mecca.

If I can stand up for Ontario for a moment though, we have 1/3 the population in the province and virtually no access to other provinces, in effect making our customer base 97% smaller than a Californian brewery's. Despite this, the Ontario craft scene has...

Big IPA's (Grand River's Curmudgeon and Black Oak's 10 Bitter Years are good examples)
Innovative and emerging beer styles (Flying Monkey's Cascadian and our Gruits are good examples)
Way more organic beer (by %) than almost anywhere in the World
Toronto Beer Week, Ontario Craft Beer Week, Brewers Plate, Golden Tap Awards/Festival, C'est Whats beer festival, Volo Cask Days, Beau's Oktoberfest and hundreds of beer dinners
Brewers from around the world visiting and hosting special dinners and events (Brooklyn, DogFish, BrewDog, De Konnigshoeven and more)
An ever increasing selection of local and (good) imported beer in the LCBO
Specialty and one offs (my brewery alone in the last year has put out a belgian imperial stout, a collaborative beer with a monestary brewery, a Sticke, a IIPA, a local malt & hop pilsner, a dunkelwiessen, a Gose, an imperial strength gruit and a coffee infused amber ale - and we're only one of dozens of breweries doing similar things)
And a virtual tidal wave of new enthusiastic breweries joining the ranks every year (railway city, hogsback, kichissippi, Maclean's, Lake of Bays and I know of at least three more in various stages of setting up) not to mention the exciting rejigging or change of ownership in breweries like King, Cameron's, Heritage & Scotch Irish and Flying Monkey's

Get with the times my friends, shitting on Ontario's beer scene is soooooooooo 5 years ago. We are vibrant, dynamic, innovative and delicious. And believe me, we're just getting started.

AMEN to that Steve. This is what the habitual complainers need to realize. Cheers!

boney · Post by **boney** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:34 pm

SteveB wrote:Get with the times my friends, shitting on Ontario's beer scene is soooooooooo 5 years ago. We are vibrant, dynamic, innovative and delicious. And believe me, we're just getting started.

I couldn't agree more. Even saying that Ontario's beer scene has been changing gradually but steadily over 5 years may be an understatment. I've been outside of Ontario for about a year and a half now, and observing from an outsiders perspective, the landscape has changed so dramatically in that time that it's virtually unrecognizable.

The pace of change over the last 1-2 years, in all the realms that SteveB mentions, really is quite break-neck when you stand back and think about it. Getting bogged down in the thought that government regulated beer sales represents all that is beer in Ontario does the scene a great disservice.....and even that realm is vastly improved from when I was there. Every area in Canada, US, Europe has thier own beer-related BS to deal with. Maybe it's time to collectively stop moaning about how much greener the grass is everywhere else.

Jon Walker · Post by **Jon Walker** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:50 pm

Having re-read this thread I'm at a loss to see who exactly was shitting on the Ontario beer scene???

There's no doubt it is changing for the better. The growth is evident. But that growth is still significantly impaired by the LCBO and Beer Store. Until that changes, either in terms of policy or in terms of structure (like adopting a two tiered retail system that allows for privately owned stores that do not have listing fees) innovation and growth are restrained...I never suggested that they weren't there at all.

Is that shitting on Ontario? Then I guess Cass can shut down freeourbeer.org and embrace the new reality that seems apparent to many of you but sadly not to me.

boney · Post by **boney** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:04 pm

Jon Walker wrote:Having re-read this thread I'm at a loss to see who exactly was shitting on the Ontario beer scene???

There's no doubt it is changing for the better. The growth is evident. But that growth is still significantly impaired by the LCBO and Beer Store. Until that changes, either in terms of policy or in terms of structure (like adopting a two tiered retail system that allows for privately owned stores that do not have listing fees) innovation and growth are restrained...I never suggested that they weren't there at all.

Is that shitting on Ontario? Then I guess Cass can shut down freeourbeer.org and embrace the new reality that seems apparent to many of you but sadly not to me.

Yeah, fair enough. I suppose my post was discussing some of the implicit tone that circulates around here from time to time, rather than explicit comments made in the post....so I guess I was taking on a bit of a straw man argument. I guess the summary is that things are getting much better but there is indeed always room for improvement.

SteveB · Post by **SteveB** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:43 am

Hey Jon,

I certainly wasn't trying to single any one person out and my statement was more generalized to say that its time for us all to change the narrative about Ontario beer.

In reading the thread here are a few lines that were coming up from a variety of posters:

...Ontario beer would be far better off if we had some guys like him running around

...Greg and his partners couldn't have started Stone today, in Ontario, and succeeded

...the Ontario brewing scene will one day elevate itself from passable to great

...Would you settle for "moderately satisfying"?

... Our beer situation is much as if all they were free to sell at Whole Foods is wonder Bread and Cheez Whiz

I think that because Ontario for a very long time had very little going on that the myth "you can't sell good beer in Ontario" took hold. There are now enough breweries, events, and beer bars for us all to be very proud of what's going on, but still this myth keeps coming back in conversations about the beer situation in the province.

Free Our Beer is still very important, the regulations can be stifling, there is still a lot beer we don't have access to, and I'm with you 100% in the fight to improve all this and more.

We've got a long way to go to get to a truly free and open market, but to put it simply, "We've come a long way, baby"

...now, who wants to grab a beer?

SteelbackGuy · Post by **SteelbackGuy** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:10 am

SteveB wrote: There are now enough breweries.............. for us all to be very proud of.......

And yours is one of them. Keep up the great work, Steve.

Cheers

Len

Rob Creighton · Post by **Rob Creighton** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:25 pm

SteveB wrote:Free Our Beer is still very important, the regulations can be stifling, there is still a lot beer we don't have access to, and I'm with you 100% in the fight to improve all this and more.

We just received another 5% increase in our basic AGCO tax after the huge jump on July 1 of last year which we then add to our Ontario Volume tax of $17.60/HL. Ontario government is doing everything they can to bleed us dry. It is becoming ridiculus and to top it off, a number of brewers have said it is the most difficult tax to administer and pay which has led to a number of penalties.

Being a fence riding liberal province - whether the government is conservative, liberal or NDP means we get pathetic, grotesquely bloated and overpaid distribution (right Len?) and we are a cash cow for government ineptitude.

SteelbackGuy · Post by **SteelbackGuy** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:51 pm

Rob Creighton wrote:
SteveB wrote:Free Our Beer is still very important, the regulations can be stifling, there is still a lot beer we don't have access to, and I'm with you 100% in the fight to improve all this and more.

Being a fence riding liberal province - whether the government is conservative, liberal or NDP means we get pathetic, grotesquely bloated and overpaid distribution (right Len?)

Assuming you mean me?
I guess we do. I don't know what it costs to distribute beer actually, and I have no idea what sort of stuff the AGCO is up to really. Just that they make the rules and the LCBO abides by those rules. But I do think the one hand does not know what he other is doing.
Or are you referring to other stuff as well? I'm kinda lost!

Rob Creighton · Post by **Rob Creighton** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:58 pm

SteelbackGuy wrote:Assuming you mean me?
I guess we do. I don't know what it costs to distribute beer actually, and I have no idea what sort of stuff the AGCO is up to really. Just that they make the rules and the LCBO abides by those rules. But I do think the one hand does not know what he other is doing.

Sorry Len - I just needed someone I know to vent on. Nothin personal man. Calling McGuinty a fence rider with no real common sense is a waste of digital space.

SteelbackGuy · Post by **SteelbackGuy** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:09 pm

Rob Creighton wrote:
SteelbackGuy wrote:Assuming you mean me?
I guess we do. I don't know what it costs to distribute beer actually, and I have no idea what sort of stuff the AGCO is up to really. Just that they make the rules and the LCBO abides by those rules. But I do think the one hand does not know what he other is doing.
Sorry Len - I just needed someone I know to vent on. Nothin personal man. Calling McGuinty a fence rider with no real common sense is a waste of digital space.

Hey, no problems at all.
I expect flack since I work for the board. Comes the territory.
And I'm not a McGuilty supporter AT ALL. He's worse than any conservative I can think of and I don't think much about conservatives. Not much at all actually. Heck, given a choice, I'd likely choose them over another 4 years of McGuilty. That isn't saying a lot for him!

peterchiodo · Post by **peterchiodo** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:17 pm

[quote="Rob Creighton]We just received another 5% increase in our basic AGCO tax after the huge jump on July 1 of last year...it is the most difficult tax to administer and pay which has led to a number of penalties.
[/quote]

We felt the pain for incorrectly filing....$2700 in penalties....it was quite horrid.