Looking for the original Bar Towel blog? You can find it at www.thebartowel.com.
We have a trivia question in order to register to prevent bots. If you have any issues with answering, contact us at cass@bartowel.com for help.
Introducing Light Mode! If you would like a Bar Towel social experience that isn't the traditional blue, you can now select Light Mode. Go to the User Control Panel and then Board Preferences, and select "Day Drinking" (Light Mode) from the My Board Style drop-down menu. You can always switch back to "Night Drinking" (Dark Mode). Enjoy!
We have a trivia question in order to register to prevent bots. If you have any issues with answering, contact us at cass@bartowel.com for help.
Introducing Light Mode! If you would like a Bar Towel social experience that isn't the traditional blue, you can now select Light Mode. Go to the User Control Panel and then Board Preferences, and select "Day Drinking" (Light Mode) from the My Board Style drop-down menu. You can always switch back to "Night Drinking" (Dark Mode). Enjoy!
Local Beer Culture
Local Beer Culture
Are you satisfied with Toronto's beer culture? If not what would help? And/or what would satisfy you?
-
JeffPorter
- Beer Superstar
- Posts: 2552
- Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:39 am
- Location: Brampton, ON
Wow! Nice topic, Wray!
Here`s what I want to say about beer in this city (I say `this` city even though I live in Brampton):
I think that despite our gripes about the LCBO, that we have one of the best beer-friendly cities in the country...
I think gripes about the LCBO aside, restaurateurs in the city really work hard to promote craft beer that`s both local and wonderful...
I know that Volo has been a hot topic for the past few days on these boards, but they`ve done a lot for us in recent years, casks days just one of them...
I also think about early pioneers such as Cèst what and Granite also have claim to a lot of accolades...
On the one hand, I`m a little skeptical about the sheer number of breweries that are opening up (In 2011 alone we had Spearhead, Junction, and Indie Ale House) but maybe that`s just getting back to a time when there were TONS of brewers. Garrett Oliver talks about Brooklyn Brewery being in a neighbourhood called brewers row in pre-prohibition Brooklyn.
Toronto has a lot of old standbys (Granite Peculiar) and newbies (Spearhead Hawaiian) that make this city both broad and deep when it comes to consuming beer.
Here`s what I want to say about beer in this city (I say `this` city even though I live in Brampton):
I think that despite our gripes about the LCBO, that we have one of the best beer-friendly cities in the country...
I think gripes about the LCBO aside, restaurateurs in the city really work hard to promote craft beer that`s both local and wonderful...
I know that Volo has been a hot topic for the past few days on these boards, but they`ve done a lot for us in recent years, casks days just one of them...
I also think about early pioneers such as Cèst what and Granite also have claim to a lot of accolades...
On the one hand, I`m a little skeptical about the sheer number of breweries that are opening up (In 2011 alone we had Spearhead, Junction, and Indie Ale House) but maybe that`s just getting back to a time when there were TONS of brewers. Garrett Oliver talks about Brooklyn Brewery being in a neighbourhood called brewers row in pre-prohibition Brooklyn.
Toronto has a lot of old standbys (Granite Peculiar) and newbies (Spearhead Hawaiian) that make this city both broad and deep when it comes to consuming beer.
"What can you say about Pabst Blue Ribbon that Dennis Hopper hasn’t screamed in the middle of an ether binge?" - Jordan St. John
Big, wide open question...
As much as I'm impressed with many other jurisdictions, I don't have all that much to complain about.
I think that the work that has very recently been done by many of the regional brewers to get onto more taps around town has made a big positive difference. More than ever I can walk into a bar or restaurant and find a good beer choice. I was thinking about this recently on a trip to Vancouver. In the past if someone suggested meeting for a pint in that city, I just assumed there would be a good beer to choose from. While In Toronto I'd think "oh crap, another Firkin/Molbats place". Yes the crummy corporate pubs are still here, but more and more 'free' houses are serving good beer, much like I see in other parts of North America.
What would I change? Well, I still think an alternate distribution system for Ontario brewers would be great. Something like the VQA stores perhaps. Or at the very least letting craft brewers distribute for each other; it would be great to walk over to the Granite's beer store to pick up a Beau's seasonal!
Finally, a big pet peeve of mine as a regular traveller is the crap on tap (and in bottles) at Pearson airport. This is the gateway to our city/ province/country, yet we put our worst foot forward. Granted, the same complaint exists for the food, but it's still pathetic.
As much as I'm impressed with many other jurisdictions, I don't have all that much to complain about.
I think that the work that has very recently been done by many of the regional brewers to get onto more taps around town has made a big positive difference. More than ever I can walk into a bar or restaurant and find a good beer choice. I was thinking about this recently on a trip to Vancouver. In the past if someone suggested meeting for a pint in that city, I just assumed there would be a good beer to choose from. While In Toronto I'd think "oh crap, another Firkin/Molbats place". Yes the crummy corporate pubs are still here, but more and more 'free' houses are serving good beer, much like I see in other parts of North America.
What would I change? Well, I still think an alternate distribution system for Ontario brewers would be great. Something like the VQA stores perhaps. Or at the very least letting craft brewers distribute for each other; it would be great to walk over to the Granite's beer store to pick up a Beau's seasonal!
Finally, a big pet peeve of mine as a regular traveller is the crap on tap (and in bottles) at Pearson airport. This is the gateway to our city/ province/country, yet we put our worst foot forward. Granted, the same complaint exists for the food, but it's still pathetic.
Brands are for cattle.
Fans are cash cows.
The herd will consume until consumed.
Fans are cash cows.
The herd will consume until consumed.
-
JeffPorter
- Beer Superstar
- Posts: 2552
- Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:39 am
- Location: Brampton, ON
i'll + 1 that!Tapsucker wrote:
What would I change? Well, I still think an alternate distribution system for Ontario brewers would be great. Something like the VQA stores perhaps. Or at the very least letting craft brewers distribute for each other; it would be great to walk over to the Granite's beer store to pick up a Beau's seasonal!
"What can you say about Pabst Blue Ribbon that Dennis Hopper hasn’t screamed in the middle of an ether binge?" - Jordan St. John
I assume you mean within Ontario. If I'm not mistaken, Portland Oregon is probably half the size and I think it still blows Toronto away.Wray77 wrote:I'd like to compare what people want from Toronto and what a city less than half the size has to offer.
Brands are for cattle.
Fans are cash cows.
The herd will consume until consumed.
Fans are cash cows.
The herd will consume until consumed.
I'm leaving for Oregon tomorrow morning. I'll be staying in a suburb just outside of Portland.Tapsucker wrote:I assume you mean within Ontario. If I'm not mistaken, Portland Oregon is probably half the size and I think it still blows Toronto away.Wray77 wrote:I'd like to compare what people want from Toronto and what a city less than half the size has to offer.
A bunch of folks met up at a pub last night for a bit of a crawl - 20 people - some knew each other and some were just new. I was sent a private message invite through bartowel - and just showed up. It was an awesome time - really friendly people, no attitude whatsoever - from the members of the group as well as the bartenders. The size of downtown allowed us to walk from place to place, the beer offerings at each pub were freakin' crazy. I grew up in Toronto, left for London 8 years ago - am now 42. I lived within walking distance of the Granite, was smoking cigarettes at the bar at C'est What long ag, have recently checked out Volo and lazed at the Victory. Tried to drink craft in Ottawa one day a few months ago with little success. Since Gambrinus came on the scene London is now the destination for Ontario craft beer. The Black Shire, Brennans, the Morrisey House, APK Live among others...beer focussed events that are accessable and fun (was able to meet and talk with Peter Flyingmonkies, Dieu du Ciel folks....) and walk or $10 cab it home. Last night I had to bail on the crawl after 3 bars - yet I had only intended on staying for one...You asked for some words from a city half the size of Toronto - are there any?!?! We're approaching 400 thousand....Many thanks to all who came out last night and look forward to meeting up again!
Gord
That was my first thought... Bamberg, Portland, Seattle, Victoria, Montreal, Vancouver (depending how you count), and those are just the places I've been. Toronto has REALLY improved over the last 5 years, but it still has a way to go. That population should be able to support MUCH more.Tapsucker wrote:I assume you mean within Ontario. If I'm not mistaken, Portland Oregon is probably half the size and I think it still blows Toronto away.Wray77 wrote:I'd like to compare what people want from Toronto and what a city less than half the size has to offer.
Have fun in Beervana!
http://beermapping.com/maps/citymaps.ph ... 939453&z=3
http://www.portlandbeer.org/crawls/
Hmmm. Hard to quantify without crtieria, but I'd probably put TO ahead of Vancouver, Victoria or Montreal as far as Canadian beer destinations, but I know others could make strong arguments otherwise.
As far as comparisons to US cities go, apples and oranges. Different countries, different values, different histories, different regional laws etc. Toronto will never be an orange but it can still strive to improve its own appleness. Beer evolution is like actual evolution, there is no inevitable predetermined sequence or perfect endpoint.
As far as comparisons to US cities go, apples and oranges. Different countries, different values, different histories, different regional laws etc. Toronto will never be an orange but it can still strive to improve its own appleness. Beer evolution is like actual evolution, there is no inevitable predetermined sequence or perfect endpoint.
A few thoughts:
1) Startup costs (Real estate and rent are huge, though Vancouver does have a few brewpubs)
2) Distribution. Small brewers may not have the resources to get their products into the LCBO/TBS distribution systems. It's difficult to sustain cash-flow with simple on/off-premise sales, and there's no other alternative (privatization).
3) Demographics? Is the ethnic diversity actually a drawback for the beer industry? What's the population that actually drinks beer regularly?
1) Startup costs (Real estate and rent are huge, though Vancouver does have a few brewpubs)
2) Distribution. Small brewers may not have the resources to get their products into the LCBO/TBS distribution systems. It's difficult to sustain cash-flow with simple on/off-premise sales, and there's no other alternative (privatization).
3) Demographics? Is the ethnic diversity actually a drawback for the beer industry? What's the population that actually drinks beer regularly?
I've visited many cities, and when travelling I am more often than not full of beer. Even if I had a car I therefore would not be driving. Finding convenient places to pee in strange cities is a great way to engage the local citizenry - the Amsterdam pissoles are awesome. We were talking last night about the local nature of beer brewing and distribution in U.S. cities and I guess having a central distribution model for our vast province kills us before we start. As I see urban Toronto being revitalized - more neighbourhoods being lived-in by the 25-45 non-car owning crowd we should be seeing more micro cultures evolving. I'd drop a Jane Jacobs quote in here if I actually knew what I was talking about. I grew up in the suburbs yet most of the people I know live in neighbourhoods like Danforth, Riverdale, Annex, Wychwood, Leslieville, Bloor West...maybe these spots will evolve with enough density to support more creative taps in their locals. Randon thought: the prevalence/ dominance of Ye Olde English pubs and generic sports bars... I can't think of wanting to go from the Danforth to Yonge and Sheppard just to quaffe a good pint - too much real estate to cover - expecially in the dark days of winter. The craft scene in Toronto is made up of destination spots - until these can exist as stand-alone locals the barrier to cultural evolution is...wha?!?!...Jane Jacobs on the phone?!?!?...with appologies.
Gord
5 years ago I would have said Montreal and Victoria, hands down. Now both Toronto and Vancouver are coming on strong...boney wrote:Hmmm. Hard to quantify without crtieria, but I'd probably put TO ahead of Vancouver, Victoria or Montreal as far as Canadian beer destinations, but I know others could make strong arguments otherwise.
http://bcbrews.wordpress.com/2011/09/26 ... #more-1332