Southern Tier IPA / Dog Fish Head - where art thou?

[Jon Walker]

How come they can't seem to hold up illegal guns at the border...but they can hold up Southern Tier....

I appreciate the "I want it all and I want it now" enthusiasm but I think a statement like that is pretty far off the mark. If you read what I and R&R have posted about the ST IPA delay you'll realize that it has nothing at all to do with the border. The LCBO are holding up the beer due to the specifically mentioned "packaging issue". It's unreasonable to assume that this is strictly a case of the LCBO being picky...it's entirely possible that, since the beer is originating in another country, the brewery itself may not be following a standardized (or internationally recognized) barcoding practice. In other words if the LCBO know they can't properly scan the products within the system and right the way up to the cashier then they have no realistic ability to sell it until they can rectify the issue. What I can tell you is the cases of ST Hoppe I still have in stock have a custom barcode sticker added to the box right above where the original barcode is printed on the box. The two barcodes are entirely different. This tells me that the issue with the barcodes that ST are using affects more than just their IPA and the LCBO cannot work with them for whatever reason. I'm guessing each of the cartons will have to have a new sticker affixed which is a time intensive process when you're dealing with 100+ cases. Hence the delay...Doesn't that seem reasonable to you? It does to me despite my dissappointment that I can't have my beer right now.

As for your disgust that we can't get Phillips products in this province...there are so many factors you aren't taking in to consideration. I'm not going to go in to all of them other than the most obvious...are you certain Phillips even WANT to ship their beer here? You wanting it and them wanting it are two very different things. Case in point, Unibroue. There's only about half of their beers available here regularly and yet in Buffalo you can usually find all of them. Is this the LCBO's fault? Actually no...Sapporo/Unibroue want the American market more than they want the Ontario market and their shipments go there instead.
(There are nuances to this example that I won't elaborate on by sufficed to say it isn't all the LCBO's fault)

Look, I'm generally far from a fan of the LCBO's beer importation strategy, anyone who's been posting here for more than a week knows that full well. BUT I'm actually really glad that they have begun the seemingly glacial shift to embrace beers like the ST IPA and the DH 60. Ragging them when this delay seems actually pretty reasonable is probably not the best use of our collective voice.

But to each their own.

[Cass]

anyone else notice those "An Introduction to American Craft Beer" booklets at their local LCBO? Mine had a big stack of them today beside the Anchor Steam and SA summer ale. They profile 9 american beers, and the brewing companies, currently or soon to be carried by the LCBO. Nothing in depth, but I was surprised to see them. It says the ST IPA and Rogue Dead Guy will be available in June, and the DFH 60 min will be here in July.

Yeah, picked one up today from Cooper St., unfortunately they don't have a US section so the shelving of the booklet is a bit random.

It also said $12 for STIPA and $13.95 for Dogfish, not sure if that was mentioned before. Pretty awesome deal for the STIPA, it's cheaper than Tankhouse.

[Jon Walker]

It also said $12 for STIPA and $13.95 for Dogfish, not sure if that was mentioned before. Pretty awesome deal for the STIPA, it's cheaper than Tankhouse.

Good point...and a further example of how the LCBO, when they get something right, really benefit us. Those prices are ridiculously good considering duty, tarrifs, cost of transportation etc...

I think the downside of these prices are going to be felt by the local micros. I've been a regular buyer of Tankhouse and Sgt.Majors, both priced between these two U.S. IPA's...there's little doubt my money won't be going to Mill Street and Heritage as much once those two beers are regularly available.

[tupalev]

.it's entirely possible that, since the beer is originating in another country, the brewery itself may not be following a standardized (or internationally recognized) barcoding practice

Ragging them when this delay seems actually pretty reasonable is probably not the best use of our collective voice.

Agree with your post Jon - although I do not think it is unreasonable to think these sorts of issues (barcoding/packaging) would be dealt with and resolved prior to the product's launch (the longer the delay means not only is the product not as fresh, but all the goodwill and publicity built up from the launch events and newspaper write ups will diminish - and all that sort of stuff is needed in addition to word of mouth to make this a success).

In my case, it is not a matter of being angsty (I'm making up words now), it is just a case of someone who wants very badly for this product to succeed as a regular listing. The thought of being able to regularly pick up ST IPA still blows my mind.

Oh, and I am addicted to hops. I need a fix.

[Illuminatus]

What I can tell you is the cases of ST Hoppe I still have in stock have a custom barcode sticker added to the box right above where the original barcode is printed on the box. The two barcodes are entirely different. This tells me that the issue with the barcodes that ST are using affects more than just their IPA and the LCBO cannot work with them for whatever reason. I'm guessing each of the cartons will have to have a new sticker affixed which is a time intensive process when you're dealing with 100+ cases. Hence the delay...Doesn't that seem reasonable to you? It does to me despite my dissappointment that I can't have my beer right now.

My take on it is this: yes, sticking new labels on the cases (and/or sixpacks) will take some time. But not that much time. I've worked in a warehouse (and yes, there's probably some difference between the LCBO and GM Defence), but even the most complicated labelling and inventory system shouldn't result in delays of more than a couple days.

[Bytowner]

I'm not going to go in to all of them other than the most obvious...are you certain Phillips even WANT to ship their beer here? You wanting it and them wanting it are two very different things. Case in point, Unibroue. There's only about half of their beers available here regularly and yet in Buffalo you can usually find all of them. Is this the LCBO's fault? Actually no...Sapporo/Unibroue want the American market more than they want the Ontario market and their shipments go there instead.
(There are nuances to this example that I won't elaborate on by sufficed to say it isn't all the LCBO's fault)

Although I agree with your point for the most part (there's no reason a Canadian should expect, nay, demand, as good or better a selection of beer than the best American stores), as many have said before, dealing with the LCBO certainly doesn't encourage brewers to bring their product to Ontario. I certainly don't believe that the lack of Canadian beer in Ontario is due to brewers wanting to ignore the biggest market in the country.

[Jon Walker]

It was my understanding that the beer was always intended to be released in June, as the printed brochure confirms, and thus there is no clear indication this packaging issue will change that (yet). If there is to be a delay nobody can yet say it will be more than a couple of days if any. You have to remember that most LCBO stores actually recieve products prior to their official launch date and keep them in stock within the store. If the store gets the ST IPA two weeks before launch or one week (due to the packaging delay) they could indeed still be released for purchase on the very same day. The only difference is whether they sit in the central warehouse or the individual stores.

Either way I'm sticking to my prediction that most big GTA stores will have this beer in stock (albeit briefly if demand is as high as we all seem to expect) by the first week of June.

[tupalev]

I think some of the confusion may have arisen from mid/late May being tossed around as the launch in some newspaper articles, or perhaps postings here? In any case, I am confident too we'll see it soon. Hell, I live a 2 minute walk from the Cooper Street LCBO, chances are they'll get it first, so I'll be ok

[Jon Walker]

Although I agree with your point for the most part (there's no reason a Canadian should expect, nay, demand, as good or better a selection of beer than the best American stores), as many have said before, dealing with the LCBO certainly doesn't encourage brewers to bring their product to Ontario.

I've made this very point time and time again in previous threads...you have no arguement with me about that. Certain breweries avoid Ontario explicitly because of the hassle. Bear in mind however that some of that hassle isn't just the policies of the LCBO...some of it is Federal and Provincial laws and regulations rather than purely corporate dictums.

But the thrust of my point in this thread was to simply point out that some breweries make the decision to avoid Ontario for a myriad of reasons that have nothing to do with the LCBO and in the case of this ST labelling situation we honestly have no idea if the cause of the delay is purely of the LCBO's making.

[esprit]

FYI, we are the Ontario agents for Phillips of B.C.. A number of months ago we pitched the Double Amnesiac IPA for one of the seasonal promotions. It was rejected with the usual one line rejection which gives no reasons other than other products were deemed more suited for the promotion in question. We do intend to offer other Phillips products to the LCBO for both seasonal listings and a General List call in the not too distant future.

[Hawks28]

anyone else notice those "An Introduction to American Craft Beer" booklets at their local LCBO? Mine had a big stack of them today beside the Anchor Steam and SA summer ale. They profile 9 american beers, and the brewing companies, currently or soon to be carried by the LCBO. Nothing in depth, but I was surprised to see them. It says the ST IPA and Rogue Dead Guy will be available in June, and the DFH 60 min will be here in July.

Yeah, picked one up today from Cooper St., unfortunately they don't have a US section so the shelving of the booklet is a bit random.

It also said $12 for STIPA and $13.95 for Dogfish, not sure if that was mentioned before. Pretty awesome deal for the STIPA, it's cheaper than Tankhouse.

I agree about the ST IPA. $12 is a great deal, I will be buying plenty. I have never tried the DFH 60 yet, but Im looking forward to it, and if I like it enough, I will buy lots of it too.

I actually grabbed a couple extra booklets to give to friends who think that all american beer sucks. My dad as well. I doubt they will have much impact on them, but maybe I can convince them to give Brooklyn, Anchor Steam and ST IPA a try. I would try the DFH and Rogue too, but I know most of my friends would think its crazy to pay that much for 6 beers. Their loss though, and hey, that just leaves more for the rest of us, right? Let em have their Lakeport and Labatt Blue, and I'll drink up the IPA.

[devonsleigh]

[quote="Hawks28"]I doubt they will have much impact on them, but maybe I can convince them to give Brooklyn, Anchor Steam and ST IPA a try. [/quote]

I let a friend who's been a lifetime Coors Light drinker try some of my ST IPA and he absolutely loved it, he'd never had anything like that before. Whether he'll go and pick some up is a different story but there is at least a glimmer of hope now.

[Illuminatus]

I think some of the confusion may have arisen from mid/late May being tossed around as the launch in some newspaper articles, or perhaps postings here?

I was under the impression that May was the intended release date for ST. If the actual release date was originally in June, then my only complaint is that I never paid close enough attention.

[bujubanton]

I am tired of the defending of the LCBO..why should I thank the government-monopoly for being years late in actually listening to some of its customers?
Because they bring in a couple good beers (assuming they are coming in)...I should say all is forgiven for years of disdain for their customers?
Let's see..we will soon have two IPAs....and 200 pilseners in tins, from eastern european/german countries. That sounds like a good product mix.

I ordered some Phillips last year and while it took a long time to arrive...it was hop tastic...(the shipping costs were steep though).
LCBO doesn't want Phillips for the same reason it has lousy B.C. wine selection...to protect Ontario products (similar concept to what they do in North Korea, Albania and Burma).

Given that the LCBO treats its customers with contempt and people still defend them..I guess we get what we deserve.

And I really find it hard to believe that this "bar code" issue (how come it doesn't hold up U.S. products in the supermarket)...should take weeks.
Finally, the LCBO did say the beers would be here in May.
(along with ST...what about Rogue Dead Guy? And why not bring back the Brutal Bitter...was the problem that it sold out too quickly?)

[Bytowner]

I am tired of the defending of the LCBO..why should I thank the government-monopoly for being years late in actually listening to some of its customers?
Because they bring in a couple good beers (assuming they are coming in)...I should say all is forgiven for years of disdain for their customers?
Let's see..we will soon have two IPAs....and 200 pilseners in tins, from eastern european/german countries. That sounds like a good product mix.

I ordered some Phillips last year and while it took a long time to arrive...it was hop tastic...(the shipping costs were steep though).
LCBO doesn't want Phillips for the same reason it has lousy B.C. wine selection...to protect Ontario products (similar concept to what they do in North Korea, Albania and Burma).

Given that the LCBO treats its customers with contempt and people still defend them..I guess we get what we deserve.

And I really find it hard to believe that this "bar code" issue (how come it doesn't hold up U.S. products in the supermarket)...should take weeks.
Finally, the LCBO did say the beers would be here in May.
(along with ST...what about Rogue Dead Guy? And why not bring back the Brutal Bitter...was the problem that it sold out too quickly?)

One, Chill out.

"Tired of"??? Because once in awhile someone gives a reasonable defence on the LCBOs behalf in the face of our constant bitching about everything? Give me a break. The vast, vast, majority of posts regarding the LCBO on this board are critical of the monopoly, giving credit where credit is due is what intelligent, grown-up people do.

While our selection isn't great, especially when compared to stores across the border, I could point you to any number of provinces and other countries that would make you wish to God you had the selection available at the LCBO. Go talk to a Quebecker about the seasonals we get.

Your point about protecting Ontario products because the LCBO doesn't ship out beer from a small brewery 5000 km away is just plain BS, especially considering the amount of international products they carry. Heck, if the LCBO's goal was providing us with quality Ontario products at the expense of other things, I'd be all for it. Unfortunately most Ontario wine and beer is only available from the producer.

I'll be letting candidates know how I feel about the LCBO and Brewer's Retail come the next provincial election, and I'll be critical of them when criticism is due, but if they continue to improve their selection and provide interesting seasonal releases, I'm not above cracking a smile and giving them cudos.