Planning a trip to Premie...

Stomp Brockmore · Post by **Stomp Brockmore** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:01 am

Jan Primus wrote:Lucky thing they did not charge you duty, as the duty on the Mac12 would of been about $40. My last trip, they charged me duty and 3 customs officers searched my vehicle very thoroughly, haven't been in the mood to go back since.

$40 tax on a $43 bottle? How do you figure? I was under the assumption that if duty was charged, it would be 25%. I calculate that at around 11 dollars. I could be missing something though...

A · Post by A » Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:45 am

Thats the duty on Beer. On wine/spirits its much more. It averages out to anywhere from 95% to 125%!

Andicus · Post by **Andicus** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:55 am

Wow! That's a big difference for liquor vs. beer.

Interestingly, when we went to the Mondial de la Biere, we drove through New York State and entered at the Quebec border. For my purchases of around $130US, my border charges were only $11. My friends purchases of around $50 US cost him $4. I can't imagine it being quite so cheap at the Ontario border, even if it is only beer.

Stomp Brockmore · Post by **Stomp Brockmore** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:50 pm

A wrote:Thats the duty on Beer. On wine/spirits its much more. It averages out to anywhere from 95% to 125%!

Good lord, I didn't know that. I wondered if perhaps there was some small difference, but that's insane to me...completely ridiculous. I guess that kills all my future shopping plans at Premier Liquors then.

Jan Primus · Post by **Jan Primus** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 8:00 pm

I had to pay $54 in duties on a $57 dollar bottle of liqour I grabbed at Premiere, I should have turned back and chugged the bottle.

And the Mac12 is usually $36-40usd in most parts of the states...they really screw us on that one.

northyorksammy · Post by **northyorksammy** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 8:20 pm

[quote="Jan Primus"]I had to pay $54 in duties on a $57 dollar bottle of liqour I grabbed at Premiere, I should have turned back and chugged the bottle.

too late!

And the Mac12 is usually $36-40usd in most parts of the states...they really screw us on that one.

alberta is really good, s in mostly privitized

StevenThrasher · Post by **StevenThrasher** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:18 pm

I've made the trip twice with my wife tagging along (once Nov ’05 and once Feb ’06). I heard you are allowed 45L per person so I brought back around 90L of beer. Some from Premier Gourmet but mostly purchased from the Beers of the World store in Rochester which I find has a better selection and it is more convenient to buy by the case there.

First time I went back through the border:
The custom's guy: "Do you have anything to declare"
Me: "A lot of beer"
The custom's guy: "How much is a lot of beer"
Me: "$800 worth"
The custom's guy: "You have $800 worth of beer in the car!?!"
(All in the trunk of a sedan which he couldn't see so I could understand his skepticism).
Me: "Yes. Beers you can’t get in Ontario”

So he told me I had to pull over to pay duty. The Custom’s person behind the desk said that was the most beer she had ever seen somebody take across the border for personal use (hard to believe she must have been new). I told her it was specialty craft beer and I had a lot of friends. She said there is one brand of beer she really likes called “Kriek”. I wasn’t about to say that’s not really a brand but has to do with cherry since I wanted to be super nice so I just said “Yes that is an excellent beer”. So she needed the % abv and the total amount of beer in hectoliters (1 h litre = 100 litres = 100,000 ml). I was a bit unprepared for this so we worked it out in about 5 minutes from the receipts. Fortunately it wasn’t very busy so she wasn’t in a bad mood and didn’t care. Anyway ended up paying about 28% duty which is fine. No car search or anything.

Second time was much smoother as I knew to have the total volume in hl worked out before I got to the counter and was pretty much a repeat of the first time but I looked like I knew what I was doing. So again pull over and pay duty with no car search.
Probably looked more credible having my wife there. Both times were across the Rainbow Bridge around 8pm on Saturday.

Both trips were well worth it.
Mainly got cases of:
Victory: Storm King, Old Horizontal, Hop Devil
Great Divide: Oak Aged Yeti, Yeti, Hercules, Old Ruffian
Stone: IPA, Ruination IPA.
DFH 90
Abbeye de Rocs Grand Cru.
2 bottles of DFH World Wide Stout (wife wouldn’t let me buy more at $9 per bottle)
A bunch of 6 packs and singles of “lesser” beers.
Some other glassware and Chimay Cheeses as well

My advice to anyone: Don’t lie at the border, declare everything. Have the amount of beer in hl worked out plus an average % abv before you cross the border.

Note American micros are well priced Belgians are very expensive in New York State. There are all kinds of taxes on them from what I understand. A bottle of Victory Storm King is about $1.70 US. A bottle of Rochefort 10 is around $8.50 US.

Jan Primus · Post by **Jan Primus** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:53 pm

Steven, how far is Beers of the World from the border cross? I was thinking of hitting PG this friday but may try Beers of the World instead if the selection is better...thanks.

Belgian · Post by **Belgian** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:05 pm

StevenThrasher wrote:800 dollars worth.

WADR, I think that's a 'duty trigger' statement!

Alternately, one's FIRST answer to 'how much beer?' might be "two cases" (if that's true) rather than "Wow, I spent HUNDREDS of dollars!!!" Then they might go "OK, have a safe trip home" because you fit The Profile of a regular beer drinker & there's other cars behind you to deal with.

It is perfectly fine NOT to mention the dollar cost - unless asked. Only if they ask does it become their problem, and to fair to them, our mentioning the cost right off may actually oblige them to get out the calculator & collect those silly fees.

We should all agree that money would be much better spent supporting Ontario retailers.

StevenThrasher · Post by **StevenThrasher** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:06 pm

Belgian: Understood. I had a choice between mentioning $800 or 11 cases of beer. I don't think either were partularlaily favourable for him to let me go, but I understand what you are saying about being more subtle. I was resigned to the fact that I had to pay duty, and I wanted to make sure I was honest and didn't get searched. That I accomplished.

As far as supporting Ontario retailers (LCBO) yes we are all in agreement. I paid about $250 in duty both times, so Ontario (LCBO) got its cut. If I could find any I would gladly buy any of these beers even at a premium over the final price I paid bringing them back from the U.S. I don't particularly like wasting an entire day getting beer (about 7 or 8 hours all told) though the end result was worth it. In the end if LCBO has the selection they get my business.

With Rochefort 10 at $9 US in New York State and about $4 CDN from Peter@esprit I don't think Ontario and Peter have too much to worry about. Now where is that damn boat from Antwerp!

Jan Primus: Here is the Beers Of The World place:
http://www.ratebeer.com/Place/new-york/ ... ld/491.htm

Its an extra 1 ¼ hours away from the Premier Gourmet (so 2 ½ hours total). That’s a fair bit of time and gas which is why I bought the equivalent of 11 cases to make it worthwhile.

It really depends how much you plan to buy (or how much you like to drive).
The selection of American micros is definitely superior at BOTW.

Another thing is the time of year you go effects what is out. Don’t know if summer time is the best for stock. You likely won’t find the Victory Storm King or Old Horizontal or DFH World Wide Stout I suspect since they are winter beers. On the other hand you may find Stone Imperial Russian Stout which is Spring only (and I couldn’t get when I went).

I’d recommend making a list and calling before you go to see if it is worth it.

A · Post by A » Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:38 pm

Yes, I dont think saying "11 cases of beer" would have been any more stealthy

Belgian · Post by **Belgian** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:07 pm

StevenThrasher wrote: I had a choice between mentioning $800 or 11 cases of beer.

Hey I can appreciate that, I didn't meant to wiseacre & I said it in addition to the 'honesty' advice you were rightly sharing (a lot of BarTowellers do know the facts but it's worth repeating for anyone NOT bringing nearly 300 bottles, I mean holy sagging suspension Batman! You were rightly a caught man.)

Postscript: that's STILL a lot of great beer for $800 isn't it? I thought you could spend that on half so much loot at Premiere, the way it adds up at the till

. Nice score, Steve - life's too short to not do whatcha gotta, right?

pootz · Post by **pootz** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:24 pm

Is it possible, pick up a declaration form at Ccustoms to take with you when you go in and fill it out properly ( as per your inventory) in your hotel before you cross? Now we know what they are looking for it should be a clean run.

I used to do this with electronic equipment when I did state side runs for a company...there is NOTHING a customs worker likes more than a proper accurate declaration form filled out that all they have to do is stamp...after they got used to my face at Coutts crossing, I could drop off the form pay my duty and be on my way in 5 min without a delay.

northyorksammy · Post by **northyorksammy** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:58 pm

[quote="Jan Primus"]Steven, how far is Beers of the World from the border cross? I was thinking of hitting PG this friday but may try Beers of the World instead if the selection is better...thanks.[/quote]
1.25 hrs after entering
watch the expiry dates on lagers

StevenThrasher · Post by **StevenThrasher** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:21 am

Belgian wrote:Hey I can appreciate that, I didn't meant to wiseacre

Understood. We are both agreeing on different things. My case was not typical I know, and if you are declaring 2 cases of beer it is a lot different than 11. I suspect they would wave you through for the most part, and the saying how much beer you have rather than how much it costs is good advice.

Belgian wrote: I mean holy sagging suspension Batman!

Funny you should mention that. The back end of my car was definitely hanging low. I took a picture of it before I unloaded the car. It was noticeably more difficult to brake too and I had to keep a longer following distance on the highway.

Belgian wrote: Postscript: that's STILL a lot of great beer for $800 isn't it? I thought you could spend that on half so much loot at Premiere, the way it adds up at the till . Nice score, Steve - life's too short to not do whatcha gotta, right?

Yeah thanks. It was worth the extra trip to Rochester and buying the insane quantities. I can still drink all the best Victory, DFH, Stone, and Great Divide beers in the middle of the summer if I want to. (though my quantities are deteriorating on some and I don’t think I’ll make it to November for the next round. I’m also looking to age some a few years.)

pootz wrote:Is it possible, pick up a declaration form at Customs to take with you when you go in and fill it out properly ( as per your inventory) in your hotel before you cross? Now we know what they are looking for it should be a clean run.

Good advice I’ll look into it. The thing is I don’t know what form there is. None of the customs officers made me fill out anything they just wanted to know total cost, volume in hl and average % abv. They entered it in their computer and gave me an invoice. The whole process was fairly quick. Both times I was lucky it was not busy.

northyorksammy wrote:watch the expiry dates on lagers

Yes very correct. The vast majority of beers I bought were bottle conditioned so no big deal but some of the IPAs and the pils and lagers had been sitting there a while. I made a few bad purchases.