The Bar Towel

Bobsy wrote:(sigh)

So appearance counts for nothing? Well that certainly explains a lot about the world.

Seriously fellas, if you don't think that appearance isn't a factor in some people's purchasing decisions I don't think you really understand anything about how to create and sell a product.

Didn't you know? You can only comment on labels on The Bar Towel if you have something positive to say. Say something slightly negative or constructive and all of a sudden you're a label eating poop head.

The simple fact is that most people's first impression of any consumer product is the packaging.

I mean, if you knew nothing about the Russian Gun or—on the opposite end of the spectrum, easily the brewery with the best brand identity and design in Ontario, maybe even all of Canada—Beau's Lugtread, and you were faced with a choice between the two, which would you pick? The one with the really neat packaging and design or the one with the cheap looking, badly designed label?

And I don't say this to be insulting to anyone at Grand River. But I would assume the fact that they're listing their beers at the LCBO means they have aspirations outside of just selling beer at their brewery to people in the know, and one of the best things they could do is invest in a solid design, from the ground up. Build their brand starting with a redesign of their logo and create labels which communicate quality. That'll get people to try the beer and hopefully come back for more.

Anyway, that's just my opinion--other people seem to like the labels. So what do I know? Either way I'll keep buying their beer and I hope they do well at the LCBO.

TJ wrote: The simple fact is that most people's first impression of any consumer product is the packaging.

I mean, if you knew nothing about the Russian Gun or—on the opposite end of the spectrum, easily the brewery with the best brand identity and design in Ontario, maybe even all of Canada—Beau's Lugtread, and you were faced with a choice between the two, which would you pick? The one with the really neat packaging and design or the one with the cheap looking, badly designed label?

And I don't say this to be insulting to anyone at Grand River. But I would assume the fact that they're listing their beers at the LCBO means they have aspirations outside of just selling beer at their brewery to people in the know, and one of the best things they could do is invest in a solid design, from the ground up. Build their brand starting with a redesign of their logo and create labels which communicate quality. That'll get people to try the beer and hopefully come back for more.

Anyway, that's just my opinion--other people seem to like the labels. So what do I know? Either way I'll keep buying their beer and I hope they do well at the LCBO.

Absolutely. For better or for worse. Labels and branding have a lot (everything!?) to do with the point I tried to make in this thread : http://www.bartowel.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=5252

The fact is branding enables people to associate the product with all kinds of false perceptions and values and they'll often become faithful to a certain brand because of these images and meanings that they've associated to it.

Ill say it again: it never ceases to amaze me the level of prestige the general public attributes to Stella Artois and Heineken. Another phenomenon that used to impress me to no end when I still worked at The Beer Store was how the demand for Corona would sky-rocket on a sunny day.

If anyone ever has any doubt as to the power of branding, look no further than the countless swill lagers at the LCBO. We here on Bar Towel marvel at how they could list so much of the same thing because we see those products for what they really are, we see behind the labels and know, unlike most, that Kenya's mass produced beer will hardly taste different than Estonia's, or New Zealand's, or Latvia's. But most general consumers will continue to attribute a wide diversity to those products even after they've sampled them.

Bobsy wrote:
(sigh)

So appearance counts for nothing? Well that certainly explains a lot about the world.

Seriously fellas, if you don't think that appearance isn't a factor in some people's purchasing decisions I don't think you really understand anything about how to create and sell a product.

It's actually more valid to discuss bad-looking labels, than it is to go on a rant antagonizing those people for saying anything. Imagine if a company you were trying to run profitably had the organizational eithic "don't ever say anything unless it's positive!" That would be fucking disastrous. You would not realize the business' potential unless workers learned to "confront" different views and problems, in an inclusive way (namely - speak up like you believe you're right - and listen like you could still be wrong.)

Anyway, there's enough precedent of great packaging in beer marketing that proves why people should complain about bad examples. Some people who may make good beer don't "get it" - and we're not doing them a favor pretending we don't see what is clear as day. It's fine to discuss these kinds of things bluntly & respectfully.

Belgian wrote:

Bobsy wrote:
(sigh)

So appearance counts for nothing? Well that certainly explains a lot about the world.

Seriously fellas, if you don't think that appearance isn't a factor in some people's purchasing decisions I don't think you really understand anything about how to create and sell a product.

It's actually more valid to discuss bad-looking labels, than it is to go on a rant antagonizing those people for saying anything.

Belgian - sometimes your posts confuse me by seeming to agree and disagree with me at the same time. I'm all for discussing these things, its the attitude of dismissing them out of hand that I don't like. Marketing of products is vitally important, and I'm not just saying that because I'm responsible for marketing in my company. If our craft beers want to gain the respect they deserve then they've got to up the ante and actually look like something worth purchasing rather than glorified homebrew.

I'm not sure who you are referring to as 'ranting' or as 'pointless wussbags' - perhaps you can clarify?

I don't have anything to do with how confusing Belgian's posts' are, or aren't. I have always been, and will be very clear on this label issue. To me, nothing could matter less. Sigh or no sigh. I'm not most people, so I don't give a flying $#ck what most people thing about a label.

When I see a Grand RIver label, I know the beer in that bottle will be good. Even if it was unlabeled, I'd know it was a quality product because I know the producer, and what they are capable of.

Call me whatever you will, and sigh all you want. I'm just calling it like it is with no personal attachment to my comments. Don't like the label? Get a sharpie and fucking draw all over it for all I care.

SteelbackGuy wrote:When I see a Grand RIver label, I know the beer in that bottle will be good. Even if it was unlabeled, I'd know it was a quality product because I know the producer, and what they are capable of.

...and there's the common ground.

SteelbackGuy wrote:... I have always been, and will be very clear on this label issue. To me, nothing could matter less....

I can't argue about what matters to you, but I can argue about what matters to anyone who is trying to make a living by selling a product. Unfortunately, they're not going to build their business by selling beer solely to you. (Although I'm sure you're doing your best.) They need to find new customers. And it's naïve to think that more appealing packaging wouldn't help them to do that. The label draws 'em in, and the stuff inside the bottle brings 'em back for more. And more. And more.

Bobsy wrote:

Belgian wrote:
It's actually more valid to discuss bad-looking labels, than it is to go on a rant antagonizing those people for saying anything.

Belgian - sometimes your posts confuse me by seeming to agree and disagree with me at the same time. I'm all for discussing these things, its the attitude of dismissing them out of hand that I don't like. Marketing of products is vitally important, and I'm not just saying that because I'm responsible for marketing in my company. If our craft beers want to gain the respect they deserve then they've got to up the ante and actually look like something worth purchasing rather than glorified homebrew.

I'm not sure who you are referring to as 'ranting' or as 'pointless wussbags' - perhaps you can clarify?

Ahh. I simply meant that (supporting you, today at least) speaking up about ridiculously amateur labels is IMV way more valid than attacking anybody for expressing the view that the labels ARE amateur and occasionally even stupid-looking to the pitch of possibly hurting product sales.

And I think it's kind of wussy to pretend otherwise. Talking about product image problems can't ba a bad thing, even in an opinionated public forum. Nobody has problems making fun of terrible Steelback ads.

Heads up. There's a good amount of Grand River Russian Gun re-appearing around the GTA, I'm tempted to pull the trigger (sorry) on another case or so.

How long would you guys keep this one, three to eighteen months max? I'm almost certain this should come back in a year or two, but you never know with the AHBO.

Belgian wrote:Heads up. There's a good amount of Grand River Russian Gun re-appearing around the GTA, I'm tempted to pull the trigger (sorry) on another case or so.

How long would you guys keep this one, three to eighteen months max? I'm almost certain this should come back in a year or two, but you never know with the AHBO.

i dont think id push this one past a year. ive had some very good bottles with 6+ months on them but the last 2 with just under a year were kinda meh.

1 - 3 months really seems to be the sweet spot with this years batches

Curiousity got the better of me and I grabbed a single-serving can of wine from the POP display

mintjellie wrote:Curiousity got the better of me and I grabbed a single-serving can of wine from the POP display

Billy goat?

SteelbackGuy wrote:

mintjellie wrote:Curiousity got the better of me and I grabbed a single-serving can of wine from the POP display

Billy goat?

Yeah, BillyRock Pinot Grigio.

It was very meh.