Maverick Brewing

[Kish84]

One plus side to all these breweries opening up is it should give talented brewers more avenues to explore and make more creative beers. Most of these new joints are opening up without head brewers. I don't know, but I strongly suspect that the market for talented brewers who can run production breweries is pretty strong right now. That should give those guys lots of leverage to be able to make the beers they want to make, because if the owners don't let them some other owner will.

So I can still bring myself to think that all these places opening is a good thing. That doesn't mean that I'm going to go.

i disagree.
maverick is an 11000 sq ft building. their brewery is a relatively high volume. no idea if they'll have bottling and/or canning. there aren't a lot of brewers out there that can a) make good beer b) run a brewery.
most new places are hiring Niagara grads, and most aren't making that much of a positive impact in the industry. they're very, very green and recipe formulation seems to be a huge weakness (or perhaps it's recipe execution and adjustment?).

i can think of around 10 brewers in Ontario that I'd consider to be talented. and i would not say that they are all world class talented. Bim, Bellwoods (whether you want to put 1 to 3 brewers on there is up to you), maybe Nickelbrook, Iain Murdock, Mike Lackey, Sawdust Sam, maybe Tweedy at Tooth and Nail, maybe Adrian at Cool, Cody at Amsterdam. you can put Siobhon (formerly Burdock) and Austin (formerly Left Field) on the honourable mentions list.

three of the above names clearly do not have leverage to make whatever they want. debatably, i'd add a fourth name above to that list.

I'd drink Barncat before most of the brewers you mentioned.

[Craig]

I think what he's getting at it those are the guys who can both make a recipe and run a large brewery, with an emphasis on the latter.

My take is having more large breweries around isn't going to lower the number of brewers like that out there. Even if some, ok fine, most fail to make quality beer, some small number are going to train good brewers.

[atomeyes]

One plus side to all these breweries opening up is it should give talented brewers more avenues to explore and make more creative beers. Most of these new joints are opening up without head brewers. I don't know, but I strongly suspect that the market for talented brewers who can run production breweries is pretty strong right now. That should give those guys lots of leverage to be able to make the beers they want to make, because if the owners don't let them some other owner will.

So I can still bring myself to think that all these places opening is a good thing. That doesn't mean that I'm going to go.

i disagree.
maverick is an 11000 sq ft building. their brewery is a relatively high volume. no idea if they'll have bottling and/or canning. there aren't a lot of brewers out there that can a) make good beer b) run a brewery.
most new places are hiring Niagara grads, and most aren't making that much of a positive impact in the industry. they're very, very green and recipe formulation seems to be a huge weakness (or perhaps it's recipe execution and adjustment?).

i can think of around 10 brewers in Ontario that I'd consider to be talented. and i would not say that they are all world class talented. Bim, Bellwoods (whether you want to put 1 to 3 brewers on there is up to you), maybe Nickelbrook, Iain Murdock, Mike Lackey, Sawdust Sam, maybe Tweedy at Tooth and Nail, maybe Adrian at Cool, Cody at Amsterdam. you can put Siobhon (formerly Burdock) and Austin (formerly Left Field) on the honourable mentions list.

three of the above names clearly do not have leverage to make whatever they want. debatably, i'd add a fourth name above to that list.

I'd drink Barncat before most of the brewers you mentioned.

while Barncat's making good/great beer, guys like him, HHOE, etc can't even be lumped into the same conversation as the group above. a glorified homebrew kit that you use once or twice a week is not the same as brewing daily, managing active fermentors, cleaning fermentors, managing a bottling line, etc etc.

[Tapsucker]

I've always sided with the 'rising tide floats all boats' notion, but now I am beginning to feel the harbor is a polluted mess.

[Provost Drunk]

At the risk of sounding condescending, what percentage of craft beer drinkers analyze/appreciate good beer at the same level that we do? It seems to me that a big part of the craft beer movement is just counter-culture individuals with a desire to drink something local to avoid supporting the MNC powers that dominate the brewing landscape. Whether the brewers are skilled or mediocre is secondary; if a brewery is "local" and "craft", it is, by definition, a better alternative. If you're goal is to support the little guy and you're not necessarily focused on who brews best. Instead, you're likely to default to whatever is closest. I recognize that what I am saying is an over-simplification; it's not so binary and there are "degrees of sophistication" in the craft beer drinking crowd. But those of us so dedicated that we frequent a message board to share our ideas are clearly at one end of the spectrum and can lose perspective on those in between.

[TheSevenDuffs]

Siobhon (formerly Burdock)

Where did she go? Burdock was perhaps the most creative Toronto brewery aside from Bellwoods over the past 6-12 months. Hopefully she's gone somewhere new where she can keep beer like Noom and Ero.

[atomeyes]

Siobhon (formerly Burdock)

Where did she go? Burdock was perhaps the most creative Toronto brewery aside from Bellwoods over the past 6-12 months. Hopefully she's gone somewhere new where she can keep beer like Noom and Ero.

she's around doing some stuff for other breweries for now

[El Pinguino]

Bring it on! I'll take 10 crappy breweries opening for every good one.

why?
how do 10 new, shitty breweries benefit you in any way, shape or form?
it's like cheering that you have 300 cable channels but nothing worthwhile to watch.

i'll stick with quality vs quantity.

Been out of country and couldn't access Bartowel...

I agree and I, personally, will also stick to quality over quantity.
But for the general public, and growth of the industry, I reinforce my earlier statement - bring it on!

My reasoning is simply to have more places open up and distract the less-serious beer folks with. So if (by your standards or my standards) 10 crappy breweries open up...that is still cool. We have no need to go and drink them. There will of course be a market for them as there is an entire range of beer drinkers out there with different tastes and budgets. But if that 11th spot is amazing...at least there is less chance of it being an annoying crowded place (if it were a brewpub for example) if there are a lot of other options out there for the "average" craft beer drinker.

On top of that, if the overall craft beer market continues to grow at a fast pace, it adds more and more pressure for change in our current market in terms of distribution, access, etc. if you "slow" it down so only top-tier places open up from now on...it cools the market and momentum down. Great for quality...but I'd rather things get saturated to hell with all ranges of craft beer just to make it impossible for TBS and LCBO to offer even a "decent' range of local beer options. The last thing we want decision-makers to start seeing is reports that the craft beer market is cooling in Ontario and nothing needs to change.

I know shelf space is already getting tough...the current system is strained...but still holding on...we need it to break, with the power of mainstream beer drinkers who are discovering craft. We're not nearly at a point tough enough for consumers to complain loudly enough, only some brewers are really complaining. If the system can't offer what MOST people want (those asking for the crappy craft beer included), that is potentially good for you and I as well. We need more voices expressing the need for market change, not just us small group of super beer snobs.

When people like my brother-in-law start asking for craft beer brands by name....that is what I want. He likes some of the simpler beer offerings from Duggans, Nickelbrook and Burdock for example...but he still grabs Stella and Heineken when he goes to TBS and LCBO. he didn't even realize until recently that he COULD buy Nickelbrook stuff at the LCBO...he thought I always brought it over by getting it at the brewery (which was usually the case..I'd stop in for some funk lab stuff or other special goodies, but grab some ESB or Cause&Effect for him).

[Belgian]

Plus experience. Guys making excellent beer at the very good 'new' places we now love were cutting their teeth or establishing their cred at (to us) less-exciting craft brewers that were very important for that career growth.

These good new breweries and products didn't just come out of nowhere or just from the astute mind of some marketing guy. They are legit, showcasing the work of those who carry the real art form of brewing. So, the cream rises because it has a chance to.

[Cass]

Hearing lots of things about these guys as they get up and running.

They emailed me a while back asking to participate in the Brewer's Backyard and I asked for more info about the brewery and got no response.

Any news / details about them?

[El Pinguino]

Hearing lots of things about these guys as they get up and running.

They emailed me a while back asking to participate in the Brewer's Backyard and I asked for more info about the brewery and got no response.

Any news / details about them?

Lots of marketing and promo stuff going on....apparently they're supporting a bunch of charities with their initial beer, which I had their beer at the Craft Beer Fest the other week, it was fine.

They were giving away a bunch of "VIP tour, beer tasting & a special brewmaster dinners" make in May...I won one of them, so will be report back here about the experience, whenever it happens.

Hopefully whatever other beers they launch with will be a bit more interesting.

[BartOwl]

This brewpub is now open to the public. Since I live a few minutes away, I went last night for dinner. The food was good. You could really smell the malt in the brewpub. I had a sample flight of four beers: Lager, Hefeweizen, Gosezilla, and First Day IPA. The lager reminded me of Creemore, but a bit different. The Hefeweizen had banana and clove tastes, like I would expect for a well-made example of the style. The Gosezilla was well balanced, but not with a strong flavour profile. I have found the best Gose beers are with fruit. Maybe they could do that here. The stand out was the First Day IPA. Maybe, it was just because I was getting a super fresh IPA, but the Centennial, Cascasde and Citra hopped IPA was quite good. It had lots of hop flavour. I will be back to sample their future beers.

[BartOwl]

FWIW, the First Day IPA was originally going to be an APA, but there was a mix up with the hop measurements and it came out an IPA. I hope they continue to hop this aggressively, and that it is not an anomaly.

[Provost Drunk]

This brewpub is now open to the public. Since I live a few minutes away, I went last night for dinner. The food was good. You could really smell the malt in the brewpub. I had a sample flight of four beers: Lager, Hefeweizen, Gosezilla, and First Day IPA. The lager reminded me of Creemore, but a bit different. The Hefeweizen had banana and clove tastes, like I would expect for a well-made example of the style. The Gosezilla was well balanced, but not with a strong flavour profile. I have found the best Gose beers are with fruit. Maybe they could do that here. The stand out was the First Day IPA. Maybe, it was just because I was getting a super fresh IPA, but the Centennial, Cascasde and Citra hopped IPA was quite good. It had lots of hop flavour. I will be back to sample their future beers.

One of my friends lives in the area and is trying to persuade us to check this place out over the weekend. Do you happen to recall what else they were offering (if anything) besides the four styles that you tried? Thanks.

[Napalm Frog]

They also have a White IPA in bottles. I tried the lager form the LCBO, the Hefe, Gose, and White IPA from their shop. Did not like the lager, everything else was okay nothing special but not bad. Dudes in the bottle shop seems to be really keen to talk beer, so that was a plus. I'm pretty close, gonna keep tabs on them for the first few releases.

EDIT: They have un-hid a few of their releases on Untappd, looks like coming up in the pipeline are a saison, table beer, and sour.