The Bar Towel

esprit wrote:All others including last year's submissions were rejected...apparently they sold too well. We offerred a lot of great packs this year but they need the room for Rickard's and Corona packs.

Hurray!!! Just what i wanted....bland crap instead of something nice to give to my Dad (i always go out of my way to get my dad a beer gift box of something he wouldn't try. He doesn't actually have bad taste, he just doesn't put any effort into his beer selection but will try anything you offer him and if he likes it will buy it himself).

Why can't the LCBO learn???

They do learn....millions of morons buy Rickard's and Corona packs...if you were the Product Manager what would you do...appeal to handful of geeks who barely have subway fare to get to a store or appeal to the unwashed masses who like these other gift boxes? I'm always amazed that any of you are incredulous about LCBO buying decisions. LCBO Product and Category Managers are judged on volume and profitability, not keeping a few hundred people happy...whine all you like but until there are a few million of you and you speak with your wallets, nothing will change.

esprit wrote:if you were the Product Manager what would you do...appeal to handful of geeks who barely have subway fare to get to a store [snip] ...whine all you like but until there are a few million of you and you speak with your wallets, nothing will change.

[Finger wagging deleted]

Honestly, what were you possibly thinking with that post?

"appeal to handful of geeks who barely have subway fare to get to a store "

I dont know about anyone else but I can afford the subway fare. I was also not aware enjoying good beer made me a geek. You learn something new everyday. Guess its time to go back to colt45 like when I was 17, I was sooo cool then.

The problem is the combination of vote with your wallet AND goverment monopoly deciding what we can buy. The two together don't work.

If even one LCBO or Beer Store in the city had a good chunk of the top rated beers I'd be happy and wouldn't complain.

Of the top 100 list at ratebeer.com right now there are maybe 4-5 that I've ever seen sold at the LCBO and only 2 regularly. (St. Ambroise Oatmeal Stout and Fuller's London Porter)

Why can't the LCBO set up ONE store with a decent selection?

Sad thing is I can't even really vote with my wallet as the LCBO still makes money on duty bringing them from the U.S. and/or buying by the case from Peter.

JerCraigs wrote:

esprit wrote:if you were the Product Manager what would you do...appeal to handful of geeks who barely have subway fare to get to a store [snip] ...whine all you like but until there are a few million of you and you speak with your wallets, nothing will change.

[Finger wagging deleted]

Honestly, what were you possibly thinking with that post?

Perhaps he meant to post as Rabbit.

StevenThrasher wrote: Sad thing is I can't even really vote with my wallet as the LCBO still makes money on duty bringing them from the U.S. and/or buying by the case from Peter.

Canada Post...

Uhh this is a tough one here.


Peter, you probably could have posted with a little more........thought..........but you've been in the business, and it is nice to hear from people who know all too well.

Perhaps Peter could have been a little more considerate, and kinder with his phrasing, but he speaks the truth.

Having worked for the board for only just over a year, I can already see that what he says is true.

Even the store managers don't give a fuck about craft beer sales. They only see the big picture. Craft beer might be a growing segment, but even shitty wine like L'ambiance and Baby Duck, and nasty ass coolers like Black Fly still kick the shit out of craft beer. And until craft beer basically turns itself into a larger share of sales, most people won't give a fuck. Because all they care about is how they look, and believe me these people all get bonuses. Except for the workers in the stores that are union.

So while what Peter says might seem jaded, and I hate to play the devil's advocate, partially because I usually dont agree with him, he's 1000000000000 % right for the time being.

This means we have to buy more, and demand more. Let the managers know you are pissed. Phone every week, like I still do and complain. (even though I work there). Let our force be known, and we will be reckoned with!

"Of the top 100 list at ratebeer.com right now there are maybe 4-5 that I've ever seen sold at the LCBO and only 2 regularly. (St. Ambroise Oatmeal Stout and Fuller's London Porter)"--StevenThrasher

The site includes tons of on-tap beers from regional places that almost noone can easily get. But your point is well taken.

SteelbackGuy wrote: They only see the big picture.

That depends on how you define big picture. And just as you describe it, the big picture they are seeing is the one that gets them the biggest bonus. Which is hardly the big picture at all.

While Peter may speak the truth in the LCBO context, it hardly excuses him from his regular insults of the users of this website, who make up a large part of his customer base when it comes to beer. Case in point - Westmalle Dubbel. When one single person (StevenThrasher I think) is indicating they are going to buy 10 cases (over $700 in one shot), it's hardly a handful of geeks who barely have subway fare to get to a store. When Peter says something like this about Bartowel users, he's essentially buying into the same mindset as the LCBO - you'll buy from me no matter how bad I treat you because I'm the only game in town. Hardly an encouragement of the free market thinking that we all long for.

I agree with SteelbackGuy, the key here is to let the LCBO know that there is an ever-growing market for specialty, craft brewed beers. (And believe me, they're aware it exits, although they may not quite comprehend its size or growth trend.) Small volume wines and spirits are regularly brought into Ontario and sometimes even given listings, so why not beers?

As everyone here knows, the best of the seasonal releases regularly sell out quickly, while much of the bullshit lingers (witness Dogfish vs. St. Louis Kriek, for example), and despite Peter's protestations, the gift packs that regularly go on sale in January aren't the Chimays or the Belgian specialties, but the Rickards and Coronas.

People, for every one person who posts here, there are probably a dozen who read. And for every person who reads, there are probably another dozen who are getting into specialty beer through Ontario beer bars or LCBO special releases. So whatever else this community may be, it is most definitely a dollar voting block, the voice of which will be heard if we shout loud enough and frequently enough.

There, that's two rants and it's not even 9:00 a.m. I think I'd best shut up and get to work.

I didn't see Peter's post as an insult to bartowel users at all. In fact, he even called Rickard's and Corona drinkers "morons." The fact that he said we barely have enough change for the subway was kind of an exaggeration but served to prove a point. This is for the most part how the LCBO sees us, and will continue to see us until their books start showing otherwise.

A good deal of bartowellers are exactly what he said. But even if every single one of us was a bit on the wealthy side, collectively our buying power would still be very weak. What's just as important as spending money is just helping interest in craft beers to grow. If it's possible at all, change will come slowly, but it's the best we can do.

Maybe if we saved up our 'subway fares' for some firewood and gasoline, we could publicly burn some LCBO executives at the stake.

At least it would indicate some political will & make it harder for them to ignore us & pretend beer drinkers were less important.

But, all seriousness aside, if Vintages can REGULARLY sell niche-market wine that isn't crap, I don't see the problem with the LCBO ordering a few skids of some special Christmas releases. We're paying these people to make an effort on our behalf, after all.

Bobbyok wrote:

SteelbackGuy wrote: They only see the big picture.

That depends on how you define big picture. And just as you describe it, the big picture they are seeing is the one that gets them the biggest bonus.

I agree that the big picture alot of the LCBO types see isn't the big picture at all, but in a store manager's case, they only care about that year. They get moved around so often alot of times, that it is hard for them to be forward thinking. In order to get their bonus (which, by the way can be in amounts of over $15,000.00) they need to increase sales on a yearly basis, and the only year that matters in the one they are in, not five or ten years from now. This is a shame because craft beer is one of their largest growing segments.


I don't excuse Peter from his remarks, that is another issue.

I don't need to be "excused" for my remarks...it's an open forum and I'm entitled to my opinion. The subway fare comment was tongue in cheek (obviously some of you make do without tongues or cheeks but have a good supply of thin skin) because a number of people actually make the trek out my way by subway with shopping cart at the ready to pick up beer...nonetheless, I usually try to meet them at the station so that they don't have to take another bus and then walk 5 blocks...I'd like to see the LCBO or another agent make that effort to sell one case of beer. Didn't mean to offend anyone but if I did, I don't really care....that's the rabbit in me! If you can't tell, I'm really pissed off lately and it's mostly with the LCBO and I'm venting at everyone these days. I understand that Rogue Dead Guy and Dogfish 60 were turned down for General Listing in favour of Brooklyn Lager...enough said.