The Bar Towel

So I'm not supposed to ferment?? I'm supposed to terminate???? OH NOOOOOOOO!!!! I've been doing it all wrong!!!! Matt, why did you lie to me!!!

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

marinarn wrote:Hey guys,

Great question. I'm glad I came across this post! I work at Steam Whistle Brewing as a communications coordinator.

Just to clarify, natural carbonation occurs during termination when yeast is converting protein to alcohol. The natural byproduct is then carbonation.

Some brands add CO2 during the bottling process. We don't do that and our beer only contains natural carbonation that is created through the brewing process.

In return, this creates a more pleasant drinking experience since you feel less full and bloated and of course, less of a hang over (all caused by having more CO2 in the beer).

Hope this clears things up!

I am sure this sounds very impressive to those that go through your brewery tour.

Let's not discourage a brewery contact that's trying to become bartowel-savvy. It's a process to learn beer stuff and people who take an interest do learn.

Belgian wrote:Let's not discourage a brewery contact that's trying to become bartowel-savvy. It's a process to learn beer stuff and people who take an interest do learn.

Fair enough, but if you are going to step into a debate as an authoritative source, you better know your stuff.

markaberrant wrote:

Belgian wrote:Let's not discourage a brewery contact that's trying to become bartowel-savvy. It's a process to learn beer stuff and people who take an interest do learn.

Fair enough, but if you are going to step into a debate as an authoritative source, you better know your stuff.

Orwell begs to differ. Really has that Ministry of Propaganda, Newspeak feel doesn't it?

And Len, that's Bahhhhhhhh! Four legs good...two legs baddddddd!

matt7215 wrote:

marinarn wrote:Hey guys,

Great question. I'm glad I came across this post! I work at Steam Whistle Brewing as a communications coordinator.

Just to clarify, natural carbonation occurs during termination when yeast is converting protein to alcohol. The natural byproduct is then carbonation.

Some brands add CO2 during the bottling process. We don't do that and our beer only contains natural carbonation that is created through the brewing process.

In return, this creates a more pleasant drinking experience since you feel less full and bloated and of course, less of a hang over (all caused by having more CO2 in the beer).

Hope this clears things up!

umm......

Hey Matt - hope I didn't come off as a marketer, just thought it was interesting I came across this post and would clear some things up. I was a bar towel member (more lurker) before I even worked at Steam Whistle My love for a good pint lead me to the job...

Just some more of your posts alongside Matt's! Oops.. last thing I wanted was to create a 1984 impression but thought it'd be best I let you know I work there.

Sorry about that guys, I'll keep the "tour talk" down lol Have been and looking forward to further learning about the community as well! Happy St paddy's.

marinarn wrote:Sorry about that guys, I'll keep the "tour talk" down lol Have been and looking forward to further learning about the community as well! Happy St paddy's.

So Steamwhistle really is using the process of termination to convert terminatable proteins into alcohol and the byproduct C02? I wonder why more breweries don't do it this way?

marinarn wrote:Just some more of your posts alongside Matt's! Oops.. last thing I wanted was to create a 1984 impression but thought it'd be best I let you know I work there.

Sorry about that guys, I'll keep the "tour talk" down lol Have been and looking forward to further learning about the community as well! Happy St paddy's.

no worries, and welcome to the site! some of your info may be a little questionable but its always good to have other breweries represented on the towel.

post on!

I don't know which other breweries specifically do this, but in my research into lagering it appears to be very common to secondary ferment lagers in sealed stainless steal vessels and in the old days lager (aka age) in sealed casks. You could call it cask conditioned, but the beer then gets bottled. The beer going into bottles would be pre-filtered or settled, as in cold conditioned, to remove the yeast and clarify. No additional yeast or sugar would be added, so it would not be considered bottle conditioned.

I have homebrewed some of my first lagers this year and lager in sealed spare kegs. Indeed they are nicely carbonated. In fact I'm getting that 'soft' carbonation that I consider a trait of good Bohemian Pilsners. Not sure about the science, but it's as if the bubbles are smaller. In comparison, I have also brewed a Kellerbier. This is traditionally not carbonated and I am lagering it completely under an airlock to let the CO2 escape rather than be absorbed into the liquid.

On a commercial level, it's referred to as "Kräusening" (sometimes also spelled "Kraeusening" or "krauzening") - adding a small portion of early stage fermenting beer to fermented lagering beer in a closed tank. In the US, the process has long been used for Budweiser (and some of their other beers) by Anheuser-Busch, as well as other brewers like Genesee, Matt and Schaefer. In the US Mid-West, Heileman's Old Style was long advertised as being "fully krausened".

This is how Schaefer once explained it:

"To the normal brewing process, Schaefer has added a unique step which
few other breweries practice on a similar scale. This step is the use
of the Kraeusen Process. This is a second fermentation carried out
under pressure and at low temperatures in our lagering tanks. A
calculated amount of young, vigorously fermenting beer is added to a
storage tank containing finished, fully fermented beer. This is a kind
of bulk champagne process which produces a fine bouquet, a better
blended flavor and a natural carbonation. We are proud of our Kraeusen
Process because of our success in being able to control it. Other
brewers have tried, but unless the process can be rigorously controlled,
an inferior beer will result.... We have determined through long and
careful testing, that even the highest quality beer, if not Kraeusened,
could not have the unique Schaefer quality."
(from The Story of Quality- All About Schaefer Beer- 1974)

On the craft side of the industry in the US, both Anchor and Boston Beer Co. kräusen, as do a number of other smaller/regional brewers.

Most commercial examples probably undergo some "adjustment" by adding some captured CO2 from fermentation tanks for consistency.

Collecting the natural C02 escaping from fermentation tanks was also common among the large commercial breweries that "force carbonated" their beers, as well- and some did claim it was "natural carbonation" - altho' most wouldn't call term it as such.

Older brewery diagrams often noted the feature (like the one recently reprinted in Brookston's bloghttp://brookstonbeerbulletin.com/beer-m ... chemistry/ from a Repeal era POPULAR SCIENCE magazine).

Apparently such a collection system it's not cost effective for small craft breweries who force-carb.

Great tech Jess!

With the 'Green' movement, it's surprising more breweries aren't doing it. I suppose you'd want a neutral yeast (low on fermentation byproducts), or the consumer may not like the added flavours.

Does Steam Whistle still use the old Hürlimann yeast? It's fairly neutral, but does leave a hint of true lager flavour. As I said before, I really like this beer when it's fresh, but some of the draft accounts just don't have enough turn-over.

The Steam Whistle yeast is coming from a brewery in Hungary. A modern day and slightly more fun version of such a process diagram is found on their site here http://www.steamwhistle.ca/fun/comic-vol2a.pdf