The Bar Towel

velovampire wrote:

JeffPorter wrote:"I can't find you're thesis - oh, and check your facts".

If I was marking this as a grade four sentence, I'd say, "please return to your grade three grammar books."
I'd hope it was a rough draft.

Touche! Good thing it can be a rough draft - thank god for the edit button!

it doesn't matter that TBS is losing market share to ________. not sure how you can make that assessment, by the way, since I don't recall reading a story about TBS's sales dropping. i've only heard that OCB sales have increased dramatically.

what matters is that the current liquor laws are set so that TBS has an unfair advantage in selling their product versus smaller Ontario retailers.

considering that homegrown fever's stronger than ever in Canada and the US, there is no reason why we should be giving any sales advantages to non-Ontario beer/breweries/corporations. it should be the opposite. The Beer Store should exist to promote Ontario beer, not the new Michelob product.

Well, I think we can agree that at the very least we'd like to see some OCB stores. That would be a pretty big step forward for beer in the province. It might also give wider distribution to brewery only beers like RPA and Naughty Neighbour.

JeffPorter wrote:Well, I think we can agree that at the very least we'd like to see some OCB stores. That would be a pretty big step forward for beer in the province. It might also give wider distribution to brewery only beers like RPA and Naughty Neighbour.

OCB stores, and a central toronto warehouse with shared delivery should be pretty high up on the OCB's to do list

IMO

matt7215 wrote:OCB stores, and a central toronto warehouse with shared delivery should be pretty high up on the OCB's to do list

IMO

I remember this discussion from months ago. OCB stores would be illegal under NAFTA.

JeffPorter wrote:Well, I think we can agree that at the very least we'd like to see some OCB stores. That would be a pretty big step forward for beer in the province. It might also give wider distribution to brewery only beers like RPA and Naughty Neighbour.

Meh I don't see OCB stores as being the solution I would want. I mean for one thing it forces any new ontario brewer to join the OCB (which I imagine isn't free). Plut it limits the stores to Ontario produced products only. Plus considering a lot of OCB beers don't even make it to Ottawa I am not sure how much would change. I would way rather they just open things up to allow bars to sell off-sales and do growlers fills. Then I could by whatever a given bar is selling in kegs.

zane9 wrote:

matt7215 wrote:OCB stores, and a central toronto warehouse with shared delivery should be pretty high up on the OCB's to do list

IMO

I remember this discussion from months ago. OCB stores would be illegal under NAFTA.

If the OCB had a few stores and used the same astronomical listing fees as TBS, there probably wouldn't be much interest/competition anyway.

Kel Varnsen wrote: Meh I don't see OCB stores as being the solution I would want.

Me neither. Most Ontario crafters already have decent to good representation at the LCBO. We lack access to a robust range of great products from abroad, not beer brewed within the province. A wider selection of world class American, Belgian, and Canadian beers from outside Ontario would not only improve consumer choice but would also place pressure on our own brewers to step up their creativity and consistency with respect to retail releases.

Kel Varnsen wrote: I would way rather they just open things up to allow bars to sell off-sales and do growlers fills. Then I could by whatever a given bar is selling in kegs.

Agreed; except I would add private specialty stores to the list as well. I don't care if one of the status quo'ers can list 15 reasons as to why reform is unlikely (we've heard it dozens of times before). Mixed systems have been implemented in BC, Nova Scotia, and Pennsylvania and we can have one here. What we lack is the political and popular will to make it happen.

cratez wrote:

Kel Varnsen wrote: Meh I don't see OCB stores as being the solution I would want.

Me neither. Most Ontario crafters already have decent to good representation at the LCBO. We lack access to a robust range of great products from abroad, not beer brewed within the province. A wider selection of world class American, Belgian, and Canadian beers from outside Ontario would not only improve consumer choice but would also place pressure on our own brewers to step up their creativity and consistency with respect to retail releases.

Plus most of the really crazy/interesting stuff that ontario brewers are doing seems to be one-offs that go to bars. I would rather have the option of going to a bar and getting a growler filled with something like that rather then going to an OCB store in Ottawa that probably would only get a few more things that aren't in the LCBO right now.

Plus anyone know how much it costs a brewery to be in the OCB. How much do membership fees cost say compared to Beer Store listing fees, and how much more would membership fees cost if all of the sudden the OCB had to run stores.

Kel Varnsen wrote: Plus anyone know how much it costs a brewery to be in the OCB. How much do membership fees cost say compared to Beer Store listing fees, and how much more would membership fees cost if all of the sudden the OCB had to run stores.

Its not free, I don't know the numbers. My impression is that most of the brewery's feel that they get at least their money's worth in terms of the tax breaks, promotions, and general awareness that the OCB has worked on since its creations. I think there are/were at least one or two Ontario brewers that opted not to be part of it though. I haven't checked their "roster" lately.



One thing that we don't see here, probably for good reason, is what changes would BREWERS like to see. A fully private system is not necessarily what they are looking for... My impression is that most would like to see improvements to the existing infrastructure, and perhaps some alternatives but radical change is not necessarily in their interests.