cellaring gueuze...

[markaberrant]

In fact very FEW beers, generally are meant to gain a lot after even a few years. Usually people say barley wines and super-strong beers from Belgium, etc. Most other medium-strong beers might hold in 3+ years or they might not (there are surprising exceptions, like Westmalle Dubbel.)

Agreed, you start getting into "experimental" territory beyond 2-3 years of cellaring for 95% of cellar worthy beers.

I have a decent cellar, but ultimately, beer is meant to be drunk, not hoarded. Sure, it is interesting to see what a 10 year old bottle of Victory Storm King tastes like, but I see no reason to keep a case of it around that long.

[iguenard]

Completely agree.

BUT, some beers I believe are sold too young (Rochefort 10's for example) and really benefit from sitting in a cellar for 6-8 months.

I like having a cellar because it allows me to have EXACTLY the right beer at the time I crave for it. Yeah I shouldn't have to hoard, but its impossible to get those american ales even in bars/shops/restaurants in Ottawa when you crave them.

Cellaring becomes the only way.

Trust me, I'd trade my cellar for an LCBO beer-specialized location with half the selection

[atomeyes]

Cantillon's a weird one. it does have live bugs in it, but they're not as viable/fresh as, for example, Jolly Pumpkin or Russian River. maybe Jason Trembley will read this thread and chime in, since he knows a thing or 2 about bugs.

from first-hand brewing experience, tossing in Jolly Pumpkin dregs to a carboy vs tossing in Cantillon is day vs night. I assume that, with Cantillon, we're talking about a fresh bottle having 1-3 year old bacteria, vs Jolly Pumpkin having 4 month old bacteria. we're also talking about a gueuze having bacteria in a different part of their lag/log cycle, i would think.

a gueuze is going to be a blend from barrels from a few years to get a consistent flavour. so its acidic blending with brett-heavy funk beer, or sour vs cheese.

you let it sit, and that cheese/urine/horsey flavour will come out - especially, i would guess, with the OP's gueuze.

bottom line: it you want to sacrifice $20 and cellar 3 bottles to try in 1,2 and 4 years, do so. with that gueuze, i personally wouldn't. but betting you that many people have and there are scores of reviews out there.

[markaberrant]

BUT, some beers I believe are sold too young (Rochefort 10's for example) and really benefit from sitting in a cellar for 6-8 months.

I completely agree with this.

I like having a cellar because it allows me to have EXACTLY the right beer at the time I crave for it. Yeah I shouldn't have to hoard, but its impossible to get those american ales even in bars/shops/restaurants in Ottawa when you crave them.

Cellaring becomes the only way.

Trust me, I'd trade my cellar for an LCBO beer-specialized location with half the selection

I'm not sure what you mean by "american ales." Most american ales are meant to be consumed fresh. Drinking stale/past its prime, world class beer aint my idea of a good time. I've participated in enough IPA tastings here in SK to know this all too well.

When I visit the US or Alberta, I sample the fresh local draft offerings while I'm there, but I primarily buy cellar worthy beer to take home. I can already get great fresh local beer in SK.

[jprime]

American Barleywines, Stouts, Quads and tons more beer are all ales. These all age well. I'd like to see you drink a DFH Fort fresh.

[Belgian]

Agree to most of this. DFH Fort, Thomas Hardy Ale, Samichlaus - there are always freak show exceptions to the Jackson rule of see a beer, drink it.

Rochefort beers I think are recommended to age for - at minimum - the number of weeks that correspond to the number on the label. The beer is not 'finished' until it's aged a good 6, 8 or 1

Some batches of Rochefort can be less than great.

I was also thinking about Orval for aging - didn't mention it because people disagree - some love the fresher version, others say it's best after year one or two. The 2008 I stocked up on is holding up great, although Orval is known for variations from batch to batch which doesn't help us all agree on (or even like) the beer.

[markaberrant]

American Barleywines, Stouts, Quads and tons more beer are all ales. These all age well. I'd like to see you drink a DFH Fort fresh.

We are on the same page, this is pretty much what is in my cellar (along with some funky beers), just wanted to understand what you were referring to by american ales.

[markaberrant]

I was also thinking about Orval for aging - didn't mention it because people disagree - some love the fresher version, others say it's best after year one or two. The 2008 I stocked up on is holding up great, although Orval is known for variations from batch to batch which doesn't help us all agree on (or even like) the beer.

I did an Orval vertical tasting last fall, didn't notice much difference at all between the 2 year and 4 year bottle, all the earlier bottles were drastically different, but all equally good.

Most DFH beers are disgusting no matter what age... Palo Santo Marron, Indian Brown, and 90min excluded.

[iguenard]

I like having a cellar because it allows me to have EXACTLY the right beer at the time I crave for it. Yeah I shouldn't have to hoard, but its impossible to get those american ales even in bars/shops/restaurants in Ottawa when you crave them.

Cellaring becomes the only way.

Trust me, I'd trade my cellar for an LCBO beer-specialized location with half the selection

I'm not sure what you mean by "american ales." Most american ales are meant to be consumed fresh. Drinking stale/past its prime, world class beer aint my idea of a good time. I've participated in enough IPA tastings here in SK to know this all too well.[/quote]

I meant that in the country-of-origin sense, i.e. Impy stouts, scotch ales, sours, barley wines. I don't cellar american pale or amber ales. That'd be silly for the reasons you describe

[Belgian]

I like having a cellar because it allows me to have EXACTLY the right beer at the time I crave for it. Yeah I shouldn't have to hoard...

That's completely right to hoard, because we just don't get a lot here - the best reason to 'cellar' beer is not to age it but to have on hand what we feel like drinking. Without private-ordering cases at a premium cost, this does sometimes mean clearing off LCBO shelves.

Hell we didn't ask for the system, we merely adapted to it. Just wait till the Saison Dupont gets here, or the Westvleteren 12. There will be blood...

[markaberrant]

That's completely right to hoard, because we just don't get a lot here - the best reason to 'cellar' beer is not to age it but to have on hand what we feel like drinking. Without private-ordering cases at a premium cost, this does sometimes mean clearing off LCBO shelves.

Hell we didn't ask for the system, we merely adapted to it.

Learn to homebrew - always have on hand what you want to drink, it's always fresh and local, and you don't need to rely on the government to do it.

***I know many folks don't have the space, time or patience to homebrew, but it is the ultimate option.

[Belgian]

That's completely right to hoard --
Hell we didn't ask for the system, we merely adapted to it.

Learn to homebrew - always have on hand what you want to drink, it's always fresh and local, and you don't need to rely on the government to do it.

Sounds like a very cool solution, and I'm working from the home office more now anyways. After all why should we pay so much for a Session Bitter or a Brown Ale that is low in alcohol? Those would be awesome to brew.

[markaberrant]

Sounds like a very cool solution, and I'm working from the home office more now anyways. After all why should we pay so much for a Session Bitter or a Brown Ale that is low in alcohol? Those would be awesome to brew.

I'm drinking a very fresh and hoppy (by english/belgian standards) 4% belgian pale ale/single. It is an absolute pleasure to drink. I can't get anything like this locally, but if we are talking raw materials, my 12oz serving cost about 25 cents.

[iguenard]

That's completely right to hoard, because we just don't get a lot here - the best reason to 'cellar' beer is not to age it but to have on hand what we feel like drinking. Without private-ordering cases at a premium cost, this does sometimes mean clearing off LCBO shelves.

Hell we didn't ask for the system, we merely adapted to it.

Learn to homebrew - always have on hand what you want to drink, it's always fresh and local, and you don't need to rely on the government to do it.

***I know many folks don't have the space, time or patience to homebrew, but it is the ultimate option.

Done. But brewing 56 L at a time, having a large selection of brews would mean to have cases and cases of various beers. I like brewing stuff that's a can't miss... Impy stout for the winter, IPA and wizens for summer, and amber ales and pumpkins for fall... but I can't brew a gueuze or a saison to save my life.

[Belgian]

I'm drinking a very fresh and hoppy (by english/belgian standards) 4% belgian pale ale/single. It is an absolute pleasure to drink. I can't get anything like this locally, but if we are talking raw materials, my 12oz serving cost about 25 cents.

That sounds ultimate. Drinking for pleasure & food value, not to get a huge buzz after 5-6 drinks.
Viggo was talking about some quad/barley wine hangover that lasted for weeks (must feel gross) but that was a motivation to brew really tasty lower-ABV stuff.
I miss Stuart's Session Ale like hell - if that was a buck a bottle I'd have a full 24 of that on hand, always. =)